In 1998 Police Going Wild in Los Angeles and Texas

How To Influence Changing Prostitution Laws

Ideas on How To Play The Game And Try And Avoid Stings by the Law

Paying for Sensual Enjoyment Can Be Legal- you just can not pay for sex

Marc Perkel's Legal Idea To Test in the Courts

Developing Safe, Sensuous Encounters

Experiences Of Others Regarding Legal/Police Issues

Police Identifying Themselves

Mexico City has the right idea!

In Houston New Law Makes Strip Clubs More Dangerous Than Toxic Waste

Disclaimers

In 1998 Police Going Wild in Los Angeles and Texas
Seems like the Police don't have enough real crime to fight so their doing their sex stings in both Los Angeles strip clubs and against Texas sex workers....ironic Clinton can have lots of sex but not plain folk!

In Los Angeles dancers being busted at many clubs for lewd conduct. From a public post a man says" Talked with one of the girls that was busted (at just one of the clubs). She said 12 girls were busted and most were busted for lewd conduct on stage. Lewd conduct for most was apparently touching their breasts. Sheesh. She was aware that touching her nipples was out of bounds but had no idea that just touching her breasts was an issue. Ordinances in this area a just plain silly.

In the next bust, 2 dancers were busted, one for not wearing her shorts when off stage. Didn't get the story on the other one but she doesn't even take her pants off on stage so I'm sure it was nothing to write home about. The club was also busted for having a fly in one of the alcohol bottles behind the bar. Boy, these vice guys sure must be bored.

Sorry to say they have started busting customers for the first time. Customers were ticketed for hugging and kissing dancers off stage as well as masturbating inside the booths.

Also, it is very clear now that the LAPD now has some sort of quota that they have to meet. One of the vice officers told me that they have to meet the quota, period. Apparently, this includes busting dancers who were not doing anything wrong. Even the waitress was almost busted until she told the vice cops that she's not even a dancer. There's been sweeps before but this one is still on going and busts are still coming down.

Ironically, one of the customers arrested at Star Strip 2 is a lawyer. I don't think he's a criminal lawyer but he was using the "S"  word a lot.

Busted for RESORTING?
Here's another silly thing LA Cops are doing: Watch out for Los Angeles cops who will bust your ass on a phony charge of "Resorting " A man said: I got locked up a couple nights for this charge. I was under the impression the charge "Resorting" was voided but it is being again per couples desiring sexual relations. Resorting is a charge of having sexual intercourse while not married to each other.

Another person said: *Resorting?* The state Supreme Court threw out that ordinance 30 years ago in the famous Carol Lane case, and if cops are still using it to make busts, it would be good grounds for a false arrest suit. The ordinance forbade "resorting" to a room for purposes of fornication, paid or unpaid.

Even worse in Dallas/Houston
The police and Feds scaring folks in Dallas/Houston this from public post: This is Heather, and I just wanted all here to know I've enjoyed hangin out here in the NG, getting to see everybody's POV's, but unfortunately, there's just too much going on with the nice policemen on here, and now the feds are involved.... what business they have here is beyond me, but they have alot more ability to wreak havoc on one's life than the nice policemen do. Dallas is bad enough, but when it hits in Houston, it's just not something I want to be involved with in even the remotest indirect way.

If there are any federal crime lawyers hangin out in here, I'd love to hear how RICO statutes apply in here. Once again I ask, whoever has the real story on the application of RICO to one of the NG's own, speak out. When you keep information to yourself, you hurt us all. If you need to do so anonymously, that's fine. Better an anonymous post than no post at all when it concerns these situations. No, I have not been taken down, but as I always say, better safe than sorry, as I might be mistaken for a ruthless criminal. Just as DOS has disappeared into sunset, so must I. I pass the torch on to those responsible participants here in the NG. Keep up the good work, and don't let the rip-offs and scam/spam artists get you down.

A reply: Regarding RICO, it covers any on-going criminal enterprise that the Feds want to involve themselves with. Still, single individuals would seem to be a foolish waste of federal resources, even if they are escorts. It would cost the feds in excess of $100,000 per defendant to prosecute this. More if the defendant appeals. Federal prosecutors are after big name defendants, not little fish -- usually.

Similarly, use of the telephone can cause a federal wire fraud charge to be added to those of the state, but prosecuting is very expensive to nab single operators.

These things are more of a worry for agencies than for individuals. In short, the risks are there, but... It can also be used as an incentive to "roll" on others.

Now the IRS is another matter. If your taxes are not properly filed and paid, then they WILL come after you.

How many escorts are there in the US? There are not enough jails to hold them all if the feds really started prosecuting on this. This activity seems to be confined to Texas at the moment. Maybe the good governor down there is hoping to divert attention from the execution of a woman by harassing other women.

I think my advice to all the escorts of the Lone Star state is to relocate to another area

How To Influence Changing Prostitution Laws
The prostitution laws are unnecessarily intrusive and deny us a basic human right of sexual fulfillment and control over our own bodies. 

What's more it maybe fun for the police to do stings of prostitutes. Why bust a crack house that might have a gun cache when you can hassle a poor woman doing honest work and her clients? The police may even get to see some nice naked women and be able to "feel them up" since in most states entrapment is allowable for a police officer.  They can show that they are working hard to protect the community, while staying safe from those annoying bullets. One thing I've learned about cops is never to underestimate the lengths that they will go to, or what they can get away with!

Obviously street prostitution is a more complex issue and often is associated with desperation vs. choice and is often drug related. Prostitution laws in public settings are understandable. However, for the law to control your options either as a sex worker, or customer in a private home with another consenting adult is intrusive. Especially when sexual fulfillment is such a basic human desire. Paying a fee is just like paying to have a good dinner to fulfill our need to have food. The need for good sex is almost as important for many of us.

With our cultures twisted values of sexual repression which interferes with sexual fulfillment we have to fight a social stigma against speaking out when laws are proposed in favor of sensuous encounters.

How many of us are willing to appear before the city council and express our adult view of wanting to conduct ourselves in our bedrooms as we as individuals see fit - always with the understanding that no one be hurt or made to do what they do not wish. Knowing how social pressure works, it is not surprising that our laws regarding sexual behavior are so restrictive. The Internet, however, may provide a communication medium for adjusting the laws to be more in line with what is acceptable to the general public rather than just acceptable to the conservative groups wanting to control and suppress sensuous activity.

Few folks would feel comfortable standing before the city council expressing their views about sexual conduct. They would fear they would be setting themselves up for harassment by cops, media and conservative groups. I think such pressure keeps a large number of us with a common sentiment quiet about our sexual wishes. The Internet, however allows communication without as much social stigma. I can imagine myself comfortably sending email to council members, city officials or the media regarding my views. It may be that if enough people were to express their desire to get the penal codes of your state, out of our bedrooms, the politicians who also are probably sympathetic to such a notion, might be willing to adjust the penal code wording to be more respectful of individual rights.

I suggest what we should try and mobilize to do is to start being vocal in support of having laws relevant to prostitution be effective only in public settings. We should aim to exempt the behavior of consenting adults in a private setting such as a house or an apartment.

But changing laws is a long-term solution. In the meantime we have to play the game of not being a victim of repressive nonsense laws against sex work with consenting adults.

Ideas on How To Play The Game
And Try And Avoid Stings by the Law
Instead of asking for "full service" make an oral agreement on the phone call for "massage, hugging and non-sexual caressing". Exactly the good touch non-sexual activities we encourage sex workers to provide, which are totally legal. If the sex worker decides she would also enjoy more sexual activities with you...that should be separate from what you are paying for.  If you only pay a sex worker  for legal companion services and the sex worker only takes money for legal caring touch, neither of you have technically broken the law.   

This is the same suggestion I make in  The Phoenix Report - The Rip Offs vs. Legitimate Honest Sex Workers section on  HOW TO FIGHT BACK AGAINST SCAMS (this is a long report it has to fully load and then it will take you to this bookmarked section) which tries to avoid legal problems by only being nude models or dancing.  To avoid the rip off I suggest agreeing to the more high touch services but which are legal and what some folks highly enjoy anyway.

While I say you may have not "technically" broken the law, it is not without risk since if you were ever caught in a sting, it might be hard to convince a judge or jury of your intentions.  However, since only prostitution cases would probably be much easier for win, the District Attorney could decide not to try and charge you and fight it.

Paying for Sensual Enjoyment Can Be Legal
you just can not  pay for sex

Ideas For Sex Workers That Might Reduce Legal Risk

Policies:
I never guarantee sex or anything that is tantamount to prostitution (illegal) and it's rather unsafe to guarantee it when I don't know who I am dealing with. I have to consider my own safety as well as my other clients'. If we're mutually attracted to each other and we've spent some fun time together, then I view our time more like a real date with real possibilities, but without any additional fee.
   
How To Answer Questions:

-Are you a "full-service" escort?  
This is just a way of asking me if I guarantee sex. I do not guarantee sex because that is illegal.

-Have you ever had sex with a client?   
Yes, but I never guarantee it because that is illegal. If I like the way a gentleman is treating me and he isn't constantly trying to push me... I am much more likely to take a more sexual interest in him. I am extremely turned off by pushy men who can't see beyond sex. There is a vast difference between consensual sex and contractual sex.
   
-What do you do if you don't guarantee sex?   
I can assure you that I make a great companion and that most men hire me to avoid the embarrassment and awkwardness of dining alone or attending a business function without a date. I am also frequently hired for my companionship (I play a mean game of chess if you think you can take me on).

Sometimes I provide a change of pace from an inattentive wife. I don't view it as men paying me to be with them. I view my clients as benefactors who subsidize my income so I can commit myself to being a good companion.


-I can rescue you from this terrible profession!
Please don't! I don't want or need a knight-in-shining-armor. I like traveling. I like meeting men. I like nice dinners and hotels. I like hot tubs and I love being spoiled. This is NOT a demeaning job. I chose this because I can control my hours and my own fate instead of grinding away in some cubicle.

I REALLY LIKE WHAT CLARITY SAYS (and it applies all over not just in Texas):
(Note: While the web link to their site is long gone, the source of the "Clarity" articles mentioned on this page is actually Morris Key)

As stated in the Overview of the Clarity site, "There are numerous laws related to when, where and how consenting adults can or cannot sensuously enjoy themselves in Texas. As a result of confusion about these laws, there may be a tendency to limit our behavior unnecessarily." It is my hope, and one of the purposes of the Clarity site, to become more familiar with what behavior is legally allowed between consenting adults. In order to explore the boundaries of legal behavior it seems like it would be useful to better understand what constitutes illegal behavior or prostitution (since prostitution is currently illegal in Texas).

As the legal boundaries of prostitution are explored, this should not be taken to indicate encouragement of illegal prostitution. My interest is in encouraging legal sensuous encounters between consenting adults. Under no circumstance do I condone or encourage illegal behavior. What is frustrating to me, and probably others, is not knowing where the line is drawn between legal and illegal sensuous behavior. I'm reminded of playing board games as a kid where the rules of the game were printed on the inside of the lid of the box. No such rules were provided with consenting adults. One purpose of this site could be viewed as discovering those rules and making them available to other consenting adults.

As I better understand the rules I intend to abide by them and encourage others to abide by the rules as well. If we find the rules are not to our liking, then I encourage that we use the mechanisms of society to go about changing or modifying undesirable rules. I do not, nor does this site encourage breaking the rules or disobeying the law just because we do not like the rules or law.

As I have stated in many places on this site, I am not a lawyer. However, I am not wealthy enough to hire a lawyer to do the necessary research to determine the boundaries of legal sensuous encounters. Therefore, I will continue to do what I can to discover the limits of legal sensuous encounters. At times this will undoubtedly involve my exploring the limits, facts and characteristics of prostitution as a way of finding out what not to do as long as prostitution is illegal in Texas.

Here is a cute idea that probably won't work...
Psychic Reading Game
I once showed up for an incall appointment only to have the lady assure me that she would not have sex for money because it is illegal but that she could provide me with a wonderful "psychic reading" for $150 (this was a long time ago).

When I indicated that I was not interested and started to leave, she laid a gentle hand on my shoulder and urged me to give the reading a try because she was sure that I would enjoy it tremendously, be satisfied, etc. Despite being almost sure I was about to be ripped off, I finally agreed and paid her (she was a babe, I could afford it and wanted to believe her...well, you know how it is). So, she looks at my palm and then holds a crystal to her forehead while "meditating" a few moments; then she rattles off some "reading" which sounds like she memorized something from a newspaper horoscope column.

By now I am deathly sure I have been had and am feeling like a complete fool. However, before I can figure out how to launch into my complaint, she says something about how powerfully attractive and sexual my "aura" is and asks if I would like to join her in the bedroom.

She ended up delivering quite satisfactory full service, but as we were getting undressed she said something like "we are just doing this because we want to, not for money, right?". I agreed of course.

I later asked an attorney friend, who had previously been a public defender who had handled many prosecution cases, if he thought her system would do her any good in court. He explained the "duck test" (see below) and said her idea was cute enough that it might give the judge and the two attorneys a brief chuckle "in chambers" before they plea bargained the case, but nothing more than that.

The "Duck Test"
Just so no one gets into trouble based on a false sense of security in such tricks, it should be clear that they actually offer almost no legal protection. The problem with this defense is that it would not pass what attorneys sometimes call the "duck test" ("If it looks like a duck and walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, then it is a duck no matter what you might call it.") In other words, if a man and woman meet (once or repeatedly) and do nothing (much) other than have sex and if a sum of money anywhere roughly in the range of typical prostitution charges changes hands from the man to the woman, then a judge (or a jury in the very unlikely event of a jury trial) will almost certainly conclude that it is an act of prostitution, no matter how it is handled in detail. If the man contacted the woman via any means commonly used by prostitutes to attract customers, the conclusion is even more strongly supported. Basically, judges (and juries) can and should exercise reasonable judgment and common sense in interpreting laws and are not required to be ridiculously literal minded or rigid. All sorts of laws and regulations could be easily circumvented if the legal system were that easily tricked by minor charades.

Marc Perkel's Legal Idea To Test in the Courts
I've written an extensive legal brief having to do with escort services and prostitution. This is not a civil rights argument but one that plays with definitions. I argue that escort services are not sex for money, but that it's a surrogate relationship for money, and sometimes sex occurs.

A movie with a sex sceene is not prositiution, but it is sex for money. What makes it not prostitution is that it's making a movie for money and sex is involved.

When a client sees the same escort over and over again it's a relationship. That isn't prostitution, or so I argue. Anyhow, if any of you has a pending criminal case, download this and show it to your lawyer. I'd like to see if
it works in court.

See http://www.perkel.com/sex/escort/legal.htm

Other Good Ideas from A Sex Worker On Checking ID etc
January 25, 1998 from "Lovleeone"
I've not been arrested, but I've heard plenty of horror stories from girls who have been. And the theme running through most of these arrests is that the girls let their guard down -- they didn't follow their gut instincts. I'm not saying this happens all the time, but we all have to be constantly alert to the fact that whoever we meet might not be who they claim to be.

I have pretty tough I.D. criteria and I know it turns some clients off, but on the other hand it has so far prevented me from having problems.

First of all I NEVER discuss what will happen on the date. My ad says full service and that is as far as I will go. And I am not real keen on saying that! If someone pushes me as to what will happen -- I will cut them off and they will never get a response from me again.

I NEVER do incall. Why invite trouble into my home???    This not only lets crazies know where you live but also gives the cops access to your house and all of your computer equipment. This makes it way too easy for vice. Don't do it. If the guy can't afford a room -- then don't bother. He can go get a street girl.

I won't go to a sleazy hotel. If the client's entrance to his room is outside -- I won't go.    This again makes it too easy for the cops. They want to arrest you and get you quietly out of the room. They don't want to drag you through an elegant lobby with handcuffs. And most nice hotels would not tolerate this often. It hurts business! If you do go to a nice hotel and you notice an outdoor entrance close to the room, be alert.

Best thing to do... meet in the lobby for a drink.

When you go in the room check to see if there is an adjoining room. If there is, be very cautious. Often cops will use this room as a holding area.

If someone is very specific about time, again be careful. They may be getting ready to do a sting.

Meet for a drink first and don't talk about intimate subjects.    It's a date!

A couple of good ID tricks...
Driver's license (use as a baseline for other ID only -- not as the only ID) Check book (make sure it matches Drivers License) Credit Cards (if the credit cards are all platinum -- probably not a cop) Company I.D. Paycheck stub (make sure it matches) If they are from out of town, ask them to let you call them. The long distance charge is minimal. Business Card Have a phone line at home that they have to call you on so you can check with Caller ID. Caller ID works nationally now too. If the name/work address doesn't match up... Ask why. If someone is local and they want you to come to their house make them call you and check the caller ID name. Most cops don't want you to know where they live. And then make sure the driver's license and phone name match up. When someone emails you, check out the email address. For example, I am very leery of hotmail and rocketmail addresses as well as gte and swbell and to an extent aol, compuserve and prodigy. If the email address has a company name in it you can also scan for the web site.    For example someone emails you and their address is something like JohnBrown@asp.com, go and check out www.asp.com and see what it is. Avoid last minute appointments. If someone calls and says, hey I have a few hours, let's meet... Question why?

I don't  require all of those things. In most cases, I weigh all the evidence. If someone willing tells me what they do, shows a company credit card, driver's license, etc. that usually works. There are also many questions a person can ask that will give you clues as to whether the person is real or not.

And last but not least... Use your instincts.    If the guy seems smug, laid back, smooth, be cautious. Most customers are as nervous as we are. If you get a funny feeling, say... "this isn't working." and leave. And remember, it's your life... Don't risk your life, reputation, etc. on a measly $150 bucks. Keep in mind that if you get busted it will be on your record and may affect you being able to get a traditional job in the future! 99% of employers check criminal records now.

And guys... if you want to meet, don't balk at our precautions. You won't get an appointment with me if I sense an attitude coming off of you. It's just not worth the risk to me.

Meeting up with someone who is extraordinarily cautious is to client's benefit. These people are usually careful in other aspects of their lives, i.e., health, discretion, etc. Do you want someone who is a flake (ask Clinton about flaky women)? If I was a man, I'd feel more comfortable with someone who wanted to make sure everything was on the up and up before subjecting myself to possible arrest.

Dave's Comments:
If anyone knows a sex worker friendly attorney it would be very interesting to get more legal help in this area.  It may be hard to find attorney's to give advice on how to avoid legal problems however, since they are paid for helping sex workers after they are arrested and are desperate for legal help.  I'd like to promote whatever we can do to keep folks from having to go through the terrible emotional as well as financial crisis of   being arrested for trying to offer or receive sensual fulfillment that should be honored and encouraged not prosecuted as a crime.

Experiences Of Others Regarding Legal/Police Issues
From public posts on alt.sex.prostitution newsgroup so no privacy has been violated. I have however eliminated any names or identifying information

This is NOT Dave's experience (never had a police experience) but  the experience also probably applies in most other American cities:

If anyone else has any experiences to share which will be anonymously of course via this list, it would be interesting.

Police Identifying Themselves from Texas but is relevant all over:

If there was some secret way of forcing a cop to identify himself, don't you think that drug dealers would have found it by now. Only stupid drug dealers would be arrested!

Most police depts. have a policy that a vice officer may not imbibe drugs or engage in a sex act in the performance of his/her duties. So don't discuss sex and money together until both parties have undressed and a bit of fondling has occurred; i.e., you touch her tits or pussy, she massages your cock. But cops have been known to LIE in court even for such minor things as traffic tickets!

Mexico City has the right idea!
MEXICO CITY, Jan. 20, 1997 (UPI) -- Members of Mexico City's Legislative Assembly say they are preparing rules to regulate prostitution in the capital, currently practiced by an estimated 90,000 women. Pedro Penaloza, who heads the assembly's security commission, Monday told Mexico City's Radio Red that the new regulations should be ready by March, and could be followed by federal legislation. The city's Human Rights Commission has called for regulations to protect prostitutes and their clients from extortion from police, although a representative for prostitutes says such regulation could encourage the practice. Penaloza says prostitution should be recognized as a service offering sex for payment, and not as something that is merely tolerated. He added that Mexico City was like ``one giant tolerance zone.'' The head of the capital's Human Rights Commission, Luis de la Barreda, says prostitution is not illegal, ``nor a civic offense, although some practices related to prostitution can be crimes.'' De la Barreda says a number of parish priests in downtown Mexico City have spoken in favor of regulating prostitution.

In Houston New Law Makes Strip Clubs
More Dangerous Than Toxic Waste.

The Houston City Council met and enacted into law ALL of the proposed new measures directed towards shutting down the topless and other SOB licensed business. The significant parts of the law include 1) new (NOT GRANDFATHERED) minimum distances including distances between clubs, 2) 3 foot dancer rule at ALL times, 3) Minimum lighting requirements, 4) No VIP or similar rooms, and 5) Dancers must obtain a city 'license' and wear a badge at all times in the club. The minimum distance rules will shut down something like 17 of the 19 upscale clubs in town ! Obviously, the lawyers for the clubs will work to obtain injunctions, but....... it's probably safe to say that no matter WHAT happens, things will change in the Houston clubs and NOT for the better.  As an example of just how these new regulations were directed at shutting down the clubs, and NOT the 'protect the kids and neighborhoods', just the other month, the city of Houston enacted some new, updated laws concerning hazardous waste sites. Under the new hazard laws, the sites must not be placed closer than 500 yards to schools, homes, etc. AND the existing sites were grandfathered into perpetual compliance. For the topless clubs (and similar) the restriction is 1500 yards (!) including from each other, and no grandfathering.....

Disclaimers
There are numerous laws related to how consenting adults can or cannot sensuously enjoy themselves. As a result of confusion about these laws, there may be a tendency to limit our behavior unnecessarily. As the legal boundaries of sex work are explored, this should not be taken to indicate encouragement of illegal prostitution, regardless of how immature and intrusive we may view such laws.  My interest is in encouraging lovingly intimate sensuous encounters between consenting adults. Under no circumstance do I condone or encourage illegal behavior. I receive no financial  benefit from any sex worker for any illegal services.  What is frustrating to many is not knowing where the line is drawn between legal and illegal sensuous behavior.  One purpose of this site is sharing those rules and making them available to other consenting adults. A special thanks to Clarity for her great legal research and information referenced and linked in this section. I provide no former legal advice on this site but simply ideas.  I am not a lawyer and have no legal training. Any discussion or writing about law on this site is purely conjecture. If you benefit or suffer from any information on this site,it is not my responsibility.