Scams in Phoenix Discussion - Scam Provider Murdered by Knife to Chest
Scams in Phoenix Discussion Highlights 10/01 after much discussion
of phoenixarizonaescorts.com who quotes $250 for FS but defines FS as a handjob
and providers insist on twice the fee for honest FS. Or the $250 is agency
fee, services are negotiable but a caller is told its only $250 for all.
Of course this isn't as bad as the many cash and dash services but typical
of the dishonesty the legal situation in the U.S. encourages.
Dave in Phoenix said:
I wonder if they get a large percentage of men to pay up to the bait and switch
scam rate, so they make more money, and don't care that the customer is upset
with the scam.
Or are the women not wanting to do what is quoted. If not they shouldn't be
in the business to start with.
What attracts women to these scams or worse, cash and dash? Do they hate men
that much they want to get back at them?
Or, maybe they are high on drugs and could care less, or desperate for more
drug money and could care less how they get the money by scam or not?
I find exploring the emotional/motivation issues interesting. Especially since
one of the scammers Jenn, had some good reviews as a nice person. What makes
these folks work for such an agency?
And of course the providers are at risk by doing the scams, as we were sadly
reminded a few weeks ago when a man murdered with a military knife stab to
the chest a scam provider. Obviously this is tragic and the man will probably
face life in jail. I would rather try and understand the motivation and emotional
feelings of the scammer, certainly never worth being injured or worse over.
Studies show the more sexual repressive laws in a culture or religious beliefs
the more violent the culture. With the U.S. one of few countries in the world
where sexual healers are illegal, it is no wonder we are such a violent culture.
BTW, sexworkers have confirmed their Muslim clients say the words to make
them "wife for an hour" so not breaking sexual laws. Even in Iran and other
strict Muslim countries there is the practice of taking "temporary wives"
Folks who want to be with each other can enter into a ORAL legal contract
by reciting a few sentences, which has to specify the length of the proposed
union (which can last from a few minutes to 99 years) The legal arrangement
is to allow people to do what's considered natural & normal, but within a
legal framework which minimizes potential harms to society and third parties.
And of course most of the "modern" world except the U.S. has long ago decriminalized
sexwork between consenting adults done in private (not streets). That is why
I enjoy Canada so much which is similar to most of Europe and the rest of
the world, except the U.S. where the religious right controls laws that are
sexually repressive, and in my view contribute to our violent culture.
End of sermon....preaching to the choir..except for LE that has been known
to read these posts for years.
PS since we know LE is seeing these posts, I also wonder why a cop would stoop
so low to ruin lives of honest sexual healers providing since a needed service.
Of course all my discussion here is simply a fantasy since I do not promote
anything illegal in the U.S...which is why I promote legal options in Canada
and the rest of the world but not in the U.S. since we have Taliban like laws
against sexual healers and providers - these repressive laws contributing
to our violent sexually frustrated culture.
At least unlike in Afghanistan, we do have First Amendment Free speech rights
still, so we can talk about these issues and even discuss illegal healthy
services .. legally.
JustJack replies: (quoted with his permission)
I worked in the business for years, as a driver and then as the guy in charge-I
watched this business from the inside and from every possible angle-watched
girls walk in one way and leave changed forever by the experience for longer
than I care to remember.
Forgive the generalizations-I'm well aware this isn't every provider and every
agency of course-but even those who take exception to the characterization
for themselves will admit it's bang on for others they know in the biz. And
even if this is them, no active provider is gonna fess up, cause it's bad
You're young and feeling invincible, broke, unmotivated, lazy. You really
don't want to sell yourself for money (as our society has so stigmatized sexuality-but
Dave speaks better on this than I) but you're desperate, or maybe you're attraced
to the thrill of it all. Maybe you got a habit to support (don't worry if
you don't, a few months in the business and you probably will, just to deal
with it everyday) Whatever.
You go to an agency-where rule one is: ALWAYS GET THE FEE. Send whoever you
have, whoever you can get, get a body to the door to get the cash. Sell them
Marilyn Monroe, send them Marilyn Manson, just get the money.
You gotta lie, cheat, steal, strongarm the guy, you don't walk out the door
without the agencies money. Or you;re done. As for your money-that's on you...screw
the guy, rob the guy, con the guy, beat the hell out of the guy. Whatever
You're not too keen on screwing strangers, seems like the best thing to do
is to trick the guy into paying you for nothing, get him in the shower and
steal his wallet and run, get him naked and have the goon outside beat the
door in and run. Promise the world, get the guy to get himself off and be
happy with it. First time it works, you decide it's the way to go-do as little
as possible for as much money as possible.
Need justification for doing this to people? Well look at these guys, gotta
pay some girl to come do them, what kind of lowlifes are these guys anyway?
I don't care about these slugs. Disgusting losers, I hate these guys, but
I need their money to survive....so if they get robbed or beat or scammed,
they get what they deserve for being such pervs in the first place. I'm smarter
than these morons, after all, they're forking over money for me, right? And
they're too embarrassed that I beat them to do anything about it, like come
after me or call the cops.
The Agency just wants it's money, They don't care if I scam their clients,
there's enough naive locals and clueless tourists coming in every day to go
forever ripping people off, aren't there? Why should I put myself out? At
least I'm not doing them-cause that's wrong and illegal...
JustJack also says:
It's about the dollars: Scam services know they can make money off the endless
stream of uninformed and new out of towners that come to town literally forever
(till LE shuts them down or one of their girls gets killed/beaten/raped-and
that will only slow them down). It's why agencies proliferate in season and
thin out in the summer. Hire some girls who know how to scam, run an ad and
the money comes in, hit while seasons good, bail when things slow down or
the heat gets on. Repeat next season. But it's certainly way more dangerous
than doing it right and building a core group of happy clients, building your
reputation and your clients lists with positive word of mouth and creating
a steady year round money flow.
That's where the sense comes in: many agency owners don't have it. It takes
much more effort and customer skills and flat business savvy for a service
to maintain a loyal and happy customer base than it is to go along ripping
endless new people off, burning each new bridge as you come to it. Till you
run out of bridges, which in a tourist town you just won't. It's as hard to
make a Skybox, for example, work as it is to make a restaurant or a clothing
store or any other "legit" business. People who are successful running good
honest escort agencies would be successful anywhere-cause they have business
Dave in Phoenix says:
Fortunately not all providers are scams. Some actually look at sexwork as
the healing profession I believe it can and should be (nothing wrong with
just enjoying sex either).
For all the bad apples and gals with the attitudes you so well described,
that most tourists and inexperienced locals get scammed by, there are also
the affordable Skylor's (skybox) etc and the many more private affordable
providers, who would not want to be mentioned here. Ironically, often the
honest ones cost less than the scams! And the honest providers get happy clients
and repeat business vs having to find new suckers all the time.
Almost seems like a war between good and evil in the battle which started
it seems with Skylor vs her partner who was behind some less than honest ideas
such as having fake fantasy girls on websites not the real ones that would
be available. As I recall he admitted to this bait and switch tactic here.
Now he is showing the evil side of the business with his agency with lies
about prices and proper terms, and Skylor continues her honest ways.
Thank you Dave. Im not the wealthiest agency owner in the world, but the happiest.
10/14/01 Phoenix Escort stabbed to death
I assume this was a cash and dash gal that upset the client. Shows how dangerous
cash and dash can be but cops seem more anxious to catch honest escorts.
As reported in Az Republic:
Kimberly Rowe, 35, an escort, was stabbed to death by a large military combat
knive to the chest in the 2700 block of West Sahuaro Drive about 9:15pm Friday
night. Police arrested Gene Foret, 51, who became abusive over whether or
not they were going to have sex. Kimberly fled the apartment in her underwear
followed by Foret, who stabbed her, police said.
10/16/01 Update on Kimberly Rowe the escort murdered last week
She had escort licenses for the following agencies: A1, A1 College Babes Full
Service and A1 Full Service Escort
It is believed she worked alone, either cash and dash with a driver or she
may have done the usual low ball quote and when the guy found it how much
it would really cost him, went berserk. Chased and murdered her with a combat
knive to the chest as reported last week and in the Az Republic.
A terrible tragedy but horny, sexually frustrated men thinking they paid for
sex and than upset when don't get it can sadly ignite rage. Certainly no justification.
Thankfully so many providers see it as a healing profession and are honest.
Studies show the more sexually repressed a culture the more violent it tends
to be. Hopefully not to this extreme, but this isn't the first time a customer
has become violent from being ripped off, especially if sexually frustrated.