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Dave in Phoenix
PO Box 55045, Phoenix AZ 85078-5045
E-Mail: dave@davephx.com
Promoting Intimacy and Other-Centered Sexuality

COPYRIGHTED 1998 ALL RIGHTS RESERVED - ARTICLES MAY BE REPRINTED OR QUOTED FROM ONLY IF CREDIT IS GIVEN "Dave in Phoenix", MAILING ADDRESS IS SHOWN AND I AM SENT A COPY OF PUBLICATION.

Single Men In Swinging

While their are many wonderful sincere single men that seek to be involved in responsible non-mongamy, there are two big problems single men face.

1) The vast majority of couples only want to relate to other couples, and especially in our group want to develop couple to couple friendships that is much more than just sex. This is especially true for new couples since sharing only with other couples creates less jealousy issues.

Later they may become involved in the Lifestyle without having to always be together with their partner but there still is more a sense of security when they know the other person is also in a strong primary relationship.

Also, many single men tend to want to cling to a women and are much more desperate for sex than a couple that are already sexually fulfilled but simply want more variety and more friendships with others that have a strong primary relationship. Many experienced couples have experienced this and want nothing to do with single men based on these bad experiences.

A couple wrote about why they only swing with couples:
"Our lifestyle implies sharing the person we love more than anyone else in the world, with another person. Whether married or not, a couple is a man and a women that care about each other's well being. It is much easier to relax and enjoy the company of others when you know that you are with people who care about their partners. You will feel a sense of safety and security, which we know, is important to all of you."

2) Gender balance or the "too much male energy" problem. Since hardly any single women are interested in the Lifestyle until they first have a partner (we get about 100 single men asking about the group for every 10 couples and almost no single women), we would always have to limit men. How to select? If you feel gender balance is important this is a serious problem. In some polyamory groups, gender balance is not important and having lots of extra men is not a problem. However, we believe gender balance is important and therefore allow single men to participate only if gender balance can be maintained.

We hoped to attract more single women with our interest in intimacy not just sex. I have brought in about six women, but they are now in other prime relationships and a couple of them participate as couples.

Some clubs like Sociables in Phoenix, have nights single men can come but most couples avoid those nights unless they are into exhibitionism and enjoyed be stared at by lots of horny single men. This is certainly not my interest nor that of most couples. If also makes a lot of money for the clubs to have single men nights.

We did try a single men's group and had one very good meeting. However, we just didn't have enough leaders interested in continuing and the numbers were very small compared to the number of initial inquiries. When most men found out we really didn't have zillions of women just waiting for them, they lost interest. My interest is primarily couples and neither Bill nor I have any time nor that much interest to promote or even help someone else lead a single men's group since we just are too busy with other things.

In some polyamory groups, the gender balance is not as important since they often include many bisexual men. Bisexual women are common in "swinging" but bisexual men have always been at a great disadvantage due to HIV concerns, which of course are not necessary well founded. Many bi men have no interest in anal which is the only significant HIV risk. But bi men mostly have to remain in the closet in "swinging" but are more welcomed in polyamory groups.

We are more of a poly group than swing....but we still believe gender balance is important.

The following is a more extensive collection of comments from others as well as my own regarding single men in "swinging":
At Liberated Christians out of about 2500 people contacting us often from ads saying we are for couples and single women only we still get about 200 single men contacting us for information for every 20 couples to perhaps 1-2 single women. A couple of these women were dominatrix's looking for slaves! Only one single women currently participates in our Fellowship Group (out of 46 people who attended last meeting) and she helps as a leader. The rest are all couples and they clearly do not want single men to offset the gender balance and who may have a different agenda than long-term loving friendships, couple to couple. Many women are bisexual so extra women not a problem. Very few men are bi and most men are much more against male bisexuality, while bisexuality among women is common and accepted by most all.

It is important for single men to realize swinging is primarily a couples activity. While a few "select" single men participate, and a few couples seek them, the vast majority of couples only want couples. There are good reasons for this, especially where friendship and intimacy is sought, not just recreational sex. The fact is there is a HUGE oversupply of men compared to the very small demand. Here are some of the reasons why single men are mostly unwelcome in swinging

One club owner said: "My wife and I have been in the lifestyle for 13 years. We are on the Board of Directors of one of the largest and oldest swing clubs in the country. Our club is nonprofit so we don't go out of our way to rip-off single guys (unlike some of the other clubs I've seen). My personal observation on singles is that they are too pushy... Most couples in the lifestyle avoid single guys. Very few couples are looking for mmf threesomes. Clubs that let single guys in in any quantity are just trying to make a quick buck and eventually chase the couples away. To sum up how most couples feel, is that if you don't bring a women to the party you shouldn't be attending...Your chances of scoring as a single guy in a swing club is very slim. And any club that tells you different is just trying to part you from your money". From Steve Allen on Internet.

Another club owner said in response to my single men problem post:
"Words of ultimate wisdom! We are a swinging couple who runs a swinging couples only board here in Toronto. We get a lot of single straights looking to join up with a couple. There are couples interested in the husband watching their wife getting it from a single male or group but they are far and few between. Most couples who are into swinging are looking to exchange partners for something new or as an extension of a friendship." from Debbie Stefen, Ontario's Swinging Couples Choice.

Single women are welcome at most clubs, but are very rare. If women want to be the meat in the market they can go to a bar. Most women want more intimacy and caring and only come into swinging once in a stable wonderfully open communicative prime relationship. Also many more women are bisexual than men, so extra women is not nearly the problem than extra men.

All major swing conventions are couples only for these reasons. Most NASCA member clubs are couples only. The Lifestyles convention (grand daddy of all with 3000 people) has been couples only for many years due to so many complaints when they use to let single men attend. The vast majority of couples are simply not interested in single men and to encourage more unneeded males to participate is, in my opinion, a big disservice to the majority in the Lifestyle.

More public posts about single men:
"Many couples regard single males are "sharks" just after sex. That is not what many swinging couples want. A single male has a very different agenda and issues than couples. Many couples have told me of terrible experiences where they bring in a single male for the women, and he falls in love with her and is devastated when he can't have her more often. Some single men tend to attach like a octopus out of desperation. Couples want to share as friends, intimacy with other couples without any need to be jealous since they are centered in the prime relationship. Many swingers are looking for much more than just recreational sex, but intimate friendships with other couples."

As an "experienced" couple, we are continually forced to "screen" all potential contacts because of these asshole single/married-cheating guys that want to horn in where they aren't wanted.

I'm sure some jerk will follow-up my post with another long-winded reason why they should be included in our lifestyle - but they just don't seem to get it! We don't care, we aren't interested, you've missed the whole point and purpose of the alternative lifestyle.

In fact, by single guys constantly trying to convince us that they are worthy of a second look, they perpetuate their own misery. We've been contacted by guys that couldn't get a date with a $500 bill taped to their forehead! Listen fellas, leave the "couples" alone and go about finding an available female to satisfy your sexual needs and desires and then you are no longer a single! Also, I'm sure that the next post from some dork will claim that they've had relationships with lots of couples.

AND FROM YET SOMEONE ELSE:
I tend to agree...why is it that the single male is so great to party with, yet when you read their posts they're looking for "cunts" "pussy" or whatnot...where do they show any respect for the ladies? Having been involved for 15+ yrs, the only "single" males we ran across were out for themselves, the hell with everyone else...

And another couple tried to put it a bit more politely... "We don't need any single men thank you. Sorry guys just way too many of you out there."

And As a post to alt.swingers said: Simple fact: if you're a single man who comes to swinging looking to get laid, you're not likely to do very well. There are a number of reasons for this, most of which have been rehashed _ad nauseum_. Most of them boil down to, "If you can't find anyone ELSE to fuck you, why should WE be interested? Is this alt.mercy.fucks or alt.swingers?"

Coming on here and whining about how the Big Bad Couples won't let you play with them because they're bigoted against single men is not likely to get you much of anything.

Concerning the lack of single women in swinging:

Try this explanation for the lack of single women in the Lifestyle, Any half way attractive single female that is interested in no strings sex with a single man can walk into any bar in America on any night of the week and find more willing male partners than she can handle. Why in the world would she need to waste her time in a swing club looking for single males. Her only reason to go there would be to look for bi-women or couples. Yet another reason that solo males are in low demand in the Lifestyle.

Any husband in the newsgroup can tell you there is no anti-male discrimination in the swinging community. Half of all swingers are male and those males who are in a committed relationship with a swinging wife have no problem gaining access to other swingers. Solo Males who are NOT in committed relationships need to EARN their way into the Lifestyle. If you are crying in your beer because most clubs limit or ban solo male acts wake up and smell the coffee. If they didn't limit the access by solo males, the clubs would be populated by mostly guys looking to get laid, and the couples would quit coming. No couples = no swinging = no club. So that equals NO BIGOTRY. Just good business sense! And of course sour grapes from the guys that can't get past the door to get at all of the loose women that they think are there..

The swinging Lifestyle is only discriminatory against solo males in the way that the NFL is discriminatory against athletes. ONLY THE BEST can hope to get in because of the HUGE number that want to play with a limited number of teams (couples).

End of quotes.

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