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Report on Dave of Liberated Christians on KFYI Barry Young Show

November 5, 1998

Well I survived 2 hours on the air even though they switched topics on me and the Rush Limbaugh show was on next - that may tell you their audience may be a bit conservative!

They Changed Topics On Me
I was told they wanted to discuss the Phoenix proposals to outlaw swing clubs and further restrict the strip clubs. I was ready to discuss at length those topics. But when the two Phoenix City Council members who had previously agreed to appear backed out, Barry just talked about Liberated Christians and religion related to swinging. I did stumble on some if swingers were just mentally ill and sex addicts! That is so far out that I couldn't think of a good answer in the split seconds I had to think!.

Other than the fact I would have preferred it have been less about religion and more about swinging, polyamory, positive aspects of dance clubs and the Phoenix proposals, I thought it went quite well.

I do apologize for those more interested in the strip club issues that I was not able to discuss them or how at the public hearings there has been virtually no support for the city proposals.

Host was VERY Challenging
I was less nervous that I thought I might be. Host Barry Young was often taking the "devils advocate" position, as a good host would since I had no in-studio opposition. He was very much challenging most of my views as he knew his conservative audience would. I think I addressed most issues reasonable well.

After about the first 5 minutes all 10? phone lines were lit up but Barry didn't take any calls until the second hour. Actually this was probably good since he was a very good interviewer. Barry probably knew most of the callers would be just trying to quote bible verses and be traditional upset Christians…he was right. I know I had a bunch of supporters, including a bunch from the Phoenix Couples Group wanting to get on who had to hold for the whole two hours and never made it.

Only four callers got on the air. All were conservative Christian types. One women was planning to have a nice lunch but after hearing me was too sick to her stomach to eat.

Another caller said, she had planned a candlelight vigil for Ruby but after hearing me thought I needed to be prayed for more! (Ruby is an elephant at the Phoenix zoo undergoing risky surgery and the topic of the earlier part of the show (before Dave).

Other than the callers questioning if we are sex addicts or mentally ill, I thought I handled the religious issues reasonable well.

I tried to show all the positive aspects of swinging/polyamory/responsible non-monogamy and how openness and honestly is the opposite of cheating etc. One woman went on and on how her ex (a minister) thought like me, cheated, gave her diseases and destroyed her family. All the opposite of what I discussed but the issue was too emotional for her for any logical discussion.

I was glad the STD/HIV issue came up since I was well prepared to put that issue to rest. I used the same material as in my "sermon" which I presented at the City Council Hearing. See

We are Just a Bunch of Old Hippies
I liked the issue a caller raised about us being nothing more than the hippies of the 60s. I used the comparison that the hippies were more the selfish "me" generation where today's' poly/swingers are more about "we" and relationships not just selfish sex. Barry seemed to like my intimacy ideas as being more than "groping, poking and thrusting" as he repeated that phrase after I used it.

Website Had Huge Increase in Accessors
Barry had me discuss the web site and had me give its address a couple of times. I know lots of folks are coming to it as I'm getting lots of E-mail from listeners. Since I did not give my E-mail address on the air, they had to have gotten it from the website

Apparently lots of listeners did go to our web site. We normally have a surprisingly steady 300-400 different accessors a day (different IP address hits). But on Thus the day the show aired the site log showed: Total accesses: 10,246 (quite meaningless) and Total accessors: 1,045 (different IP addresses). Then Friday was one of our busiest days ever: Total accesses: 16,766, Total accessors: 1,531!

Overall Went Well
Overall I think I provided a very positive view of polyamory/swinging but for many listeners they just want to quote bible verses whose meanings have been twisted by tradition.

I more or less wasn't coming up with any answer in those split seconds I had to think to an anarchistic question. Didn't make sense to me why consenting responsible adults doing what they choose based on individual beliefs related to anarchy which Barry raised. (See later comment by Eric on this)

I did get in a lot of discussion about the bible translations being based on tradition vs "dynamic equivalency" of what the words meant at the time written. I discussed serious biblical research using the Kitel vs. Strong's and how I started out as a conservative Christian many years ago trying to prove the liberals wrong. But over time the evidence became clear I had been wrong in my conservative views. Now I am the liberal I started out to prove wrong.

Share Sample E-mail's Received After Show
Here are a few samples of the large numbers of E-mails I'm receiving. I appreciate all the support and some very helpful comments. I may be asked to be on other shows so your suggestions are very appreciated. Also being aware of what the public says could be helpful for others who might get the same type of response. Hopefully my experience may help others that may do these types of talk shows in the future or getting a feel of the types of questions that may come up in the general public. Sometimes we may be so used to being around like-minded folk, we don't realize what the general public thinks.

Sample E-mails of course with no specific identification shown for privacy, except where used by request or to show first name.

"I was listening to you (Dave) on 910 am in Phoenix Az. I was quite interested in what you had to say. I am glad that you have the courage to stand against the dogma of tradition! I wish you luck in your ventures! GodSpeed!!! Stephanie"

"what a bunch of garbage....LOL you really believe the crap you spout. 51 and still messed up.....always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth huh."

"Dave, good show. I thought you held your own pretty well. I sat with my ear pressed to the phone for almost two solid hours trying to get on. Oh well maybe next time we can get in. I was loaded for bear too. Good job though. BTW I got four calls from LC people during the show so I know there were a lot of us out there listening."

"Buddy if your a christian, then christ must have been an atheist."

"Great Show! You came across well."

"You did a good job, man! Barry was, I think, in a round-about way, actually supporting what you were saying. Dave says: Yes I agree Barry was a very good interviewer with hard-hitting tough questions he knew his listeners would want to ask."

" i think it is important for people to remember that the skinheads and kkk members also refer to themselves as Christians, and that it is God's will for the white race to rule over the others. you can twist the Bible to mean anything you want it to, provided you begin with a certain goal in mind. you can justify this however you want and attempt to convince others of your position, but I am willing to bet my 6 years of theological training that you are dead wrong. God have mercy on you "dave", you are going to need it. todd"

"I was also rather annoyed when, discussing the Christianity aspect, he asked a question that you began to answer with a St. Augustinian example, and were cut off from doing that. It struck me a bit as "here, stay on this focus of topic, but I'm taking away all your tool-kit FOR this focus!"

And I didn't feel Ruby needed a candlelight vigil any more than you needed egocentric iconoclastic prayer!"

The following very good comments from Eric in Phoenix who helped lead the LC Phx Group:

I thought you really did great though. You are developing your "think on your feet skills" I was really ready to jump in and and kick ass over the sex addict issue....but you did make the right point in the "addictive behavior is a destructive thing" enjoying something in a non-destructive manner is not addictive ... it is at most an indulgent behavior ... and any psychologist could and would tell you that an occasional indulgence is a healthy thing and repression is the destructive opposite.

I was also a little peeved at his anarchistic correlation. Anarchy is freedom from LEGAL structures, what you are dealing with is an issue of MORAL freedom. Morality is the expression of the tradition of a culture, and morality should never be an issue of legislation. Our AMERICAN morality differs greatly from that of the rest of the world, so I guess it just follows that ours is the only right morality (or the only right religion???).

I would have also jumped on his Chevy or Ford analogy. He said (in reference to being non christian to appreciate christian philosophy) that you had to drive a ford to appreciate the value of a chevy ... I would say that it is more like Most people saying that chevy is the only car on the road so if you don't drive one (and stay on the road with it) then you are walking. A single product mentality is what the contemporary christian ethic preaches."

"You were wonderful on the Barry Young show this morning! Talk about someone being out of their intellectual depth - Young has always impressed me as being someone who attempts to cover his lack of rationality and understanding with far too many words, and the contrast between his whining and nit-picking and your forthright and articulate responses was marked!"

"I listened for the whole 2 hours this morning. I didn't see any point in calling in, probably would have been impossible anyway. Even though he was a bit argumentative, Barry Young did good in letting you get your points across, and some of his earlier questions were actually fairly helpful. Even the callers weren't complete idiots. I have never listened to KFYI before, because I tend to get annoyed and bored with all that right-wing ranting (which I can hear from my own brother-in-law as well) <bg>. I was hoping more of the show would get in to the strip clubs and decriminalization or even have some of the city people on, but a lot of people were exposed to some interesting ideas. If I had called I would have said this: Suppose Dave is 100% wrong on his interpretation of the Bible, and swinging, non-monogamy etc. is completely wrong and sinful. That still would not be a justification for the City of Phoenix to outlaw swing clubs due to the separation of church and state (which by the way comes from the founding fathers, not the communists as Pat Robertson has alleged)."

"To the comments like are you a addicted to sex. I think I would have laughed and said asked him the same thing. Also I would not have allowed him to bait me on the theology of the question. I think the answer I would have tried would have been something like "The point is Under the constitution I can believe whatever I want who are you or anyone else to tell me what I should or should not believe". Then move the conservation back to the laws. Where you can win. I think you didn't do bad, but I have heard him joke about sex addicts before (I don't think he believes in sex addicts:)) and I think you could have turned that into a joke and moved on."

Voicemail From Fundie Christian
I got one typical clueless Christian "you need to be saved" mantra and the "you will die because you fornicate and commit adultery since you will go to hell which is eternal death" type stuff. It's like a cult that only knows certain mantra's. Then he says how I should read the bible. If they weren't so clueless and heard me on the air, it should be obvious to most that after 20 years of Biblical study it isn't very intelligent to tell me to read the bible! I obviously know it more than they do.

Its these fundies that typically are the only group that really gets upset. Especially against Lib Christians since they think we are so unchristian. And once they've done their Godly duty of spouting off (makes them feel more holy) they are relatively harmless...unless your an abortion clinic!

I can say after doing this for so many years, have had very few problems other than these silly messages on our voice mail once in a while. But that is also why I don't use my last name so won't have pickets coming to house etc. However on yesterdays talk show the host went a bit overboard saying topic controversial etc. and that didn't want to use last name.

Sometimes Worst Attackers Become Supporters
I've had a number of people tell me that years ago, say on Prodigy, where I used to be very active, that then they were loudly attacking me. But a few have written me years later thanking me for getting them to think about the issues and they started researching what I was saying (to prove me wrong just like how I started out many years ago trying to prove the liberals wrong). But they find out I am right, they are amazed and now thank me for putting up with their attacks and giving them well researched information they latter took the time to seriously study and eventually would up agreeing with our views. Just like I wound up agreeing with the liberals I set out to discredit in my biblical research years ago.

The following are comments directed at KFYI Radio regarding my appearance:

Geez Barry! This guy's a nutcase! He needs to re-name his "organization" to "Free Will Christians" because it is free will they are pursuing and not liberation. What a crock. I hope he discovers the truth before he dies. -- SAHMmy

The message here is that loving more than one is okay!! As long as all agree!! The important part is that they are helping a great deal of people get through "hang-ups" about normal sexuality. -- kathe in phx

Unfortunately, the views of most people regarding sex, with or without love, are heavily tied to religion and are therefore not rational. These religion-based views are not based in reality and consequently not in the best interest of human beings here on earth. Loving more than 1 w/ honesty is quite acceptable. -- KARL in cg

shut down the clubs and the disease that frequents them. This is bottom feeding behavior of the worse sort. No wonder society is a mess -- cured

With regard to the on-air discussion, it's stupid and a violation of freedom of religion for religious groups to try to regulate the sex industry based on their beliefs. -- Jeff in Gilbert

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