Is it Cheating? A discussion with sexworker & various views
On terb.ca (Canadian sexwork board) there was a very good discussion of
"cheating"
A Provider says in part to a client asking about if its cheating to see her:
Many men see me for many different reasons. Some gentlemen are single but
the majority of the man who do see me are married or attached (at least 75%).
The married men see me perhaps because they have been married for a very long
time. They love there wife and have children and wouldn't think of leaving
there families. Usually they are just missing a little something out of there
lives. I provide that little something for them. They go back to there loving
families and that small need in there life is satisfied which makes them a
happier man whom may have gained just that little bit of self confidence back
to perhaps even go home to be a better husband or father in some cases.
Rather than going out and having an affair with a woman which can be long
term (emotions & attachments are involved) and damaging to there relationships
(sneaking around, lying, etc.) 90 minutes out of there day every so often
provides them with the satisfaction they need to continue on being 100 percent
of themselves rather than only half. Perhaps it's really just the company
the desire more than the sexuality of the visit itself, (but of course that's
always a bonus)
I've had young men see me who do have girlfriends (perhaps some men just can't
be monogamous but love the person they are with) but enjoy something from
myself that perhaps their girlfriend doesn't offer. For some men, they don't
want another relationship, just to fill a small void. They love who they are
with, maybe they have responsibilities such as a home together, children etc,
and it's not appropriate at the time for them to separate. Of course for them
affairs would be out of the question.
Other guys love the thrill, they love seeing woman, love having fun. Most
of these men would not feel that they are cheating...it's more of a lifestyle
for them than it is a once and a while encounter.
Now with this in mind I'll answer your question....Do I think it's cheating?
Only you can answer that question. With everything in mind, How do you feel
about it?
I offer a very sensuous and therapeutic (in many different ways) service....mind,
body and soul. Many of my clients say they couldn't get through the rest of
the week unless they had come to see me to release their tension. Not only
their bodily tension, but emotional (through company, and attention), physical
(through therapeutic massage and release) and spiritual (through sensuality,
eroticism and meaningful conversation). And of course we always have fun!
Most men do not feel that they are cheating because they are not completely
involved, they see it as a therapeutic experience themselves. It's not a full
time thing. Other men may argue that it is cheating beyond a doubt, But Im
hoping that those men don't come to see me. I wouldn't want any man to be
uncomfortable or regret any part of our experience. So again, only you can
answer that question for yourself. How do you feel about it? Are you comfortable
with it? If yes, than fine. Perhaps this is something that you can benifit
greatly from. If the answer is no, then perhaps this isn't for you. You may
feel guilty and subconsciously you will bring that quilt home and you will
be cheating. Cheating yourself. your relationship could suffer if you take
those feelings home.
I'm hoping since you contacted me that you do feel comfortable with it. And
I'm hoping that you will see me and enjoy yourself. That you will benefit
greatly and will not let the experience affect your relationship. I'm hoping
I can teach you a few things and perhpas some emotions or feelings in yourself
you didn't know you had and you can use them to benefit your relationship.
I hope this response has helped you and I hope to see you when you feel you
are comfortable enough and ready to enjoy the experience!
A man says:
if it is cheating, does it matter? If the man remains committed to supporting
his wife and family, both financially and otherwise, isn't he doing what society
expects of husbands and fathers? I think so. The alternatives - suppression
of sexual interest, or abandonment of marriages/relationships where such interests
exist - seems rather narrow-minded, destructive, and pointless.
A man says
Of course, it is cheating!!! You are married, you are stepping out, you are
cheating on her. Period. I don't care how you rationalize it. I am married
and I have a pair of beautiful daughters. Something happened to my wife a
few years ago - she turned into a bitter, vicious, mind-numbing woman. I don't
know if it was me but it happened overnight. The next day she was just a nasty
bitch. The only reason I stay is because of my girls. I could NEVER leave
them. I am more than willing to personally put up with the woman to raise
my children. If we got divorced I would lose them (something like 95% of custody
battles go in favour of the mother apparently no matter what). One or two
weekends a month is not good enough for me with my girls. So. . . I need to
have some fun once in a while So I hobby. I have my favourite SP's and I use
their services on average about once every 5-6 weeks. Sorry about the rant,
but I needed to explain that some of us HAVE to cheat. NEED to cheat. Say
what you want but that's my two cents.
Provider says:
I enjoy meeting people of all colours, races and creeds, and always find something
interesting and/or uniqueabout each and every client. I'm sure that this time
that we spend together whether it be the romantic, the sexual or the friendly
part of the session, they will go home that much more satisfied, happier or
self confidant.
Sometimes all it takes for someone to feel better is just have someone to
listen and pay attention to them. Some men can't open up to their own wives
for whatever reasons.....Coming to see myself or other SP's provides an oasis
for many gentleman....This is why they can leave being more self confidant
and feeling a lot better than when they arrived! xoxox
A man says:
There is an emerging trend towards defining the tie that binds a relationship
in emotional as opposed to merely physical terms, namely a long term emotional
commitment, and not just a ritualistic observance of extra-marital celibacy.
This is part of a much wider tendency to view moral questions in terms of
inner feelings as opposed to external, legal-type criteria. This really hit
me when I was at a SC once and observed a bunch of really young college kids
come in, some with girlfriends in tow, and I thought about how when I was
that age, just being found out by the GF to have been at a strip would have
been grounds for high drama and/or breakup, at least with the more conservative
girls. Now it's seemingly just taken as normal among the youth. In another
25 years, as sex work mainstreams, everyone will do it, and nobody except
the really conservative and/or religious will see it as any more adulterous
than admitting to find this or that movie or pop star sexy seems now.
Another man says:
So you don't think the role of sex can be expected to change and slow down
with the passing of time for any given marriage without it being seen as a
broken marriage contract? I mean when you are both single she might have the
energy and free time to dedicate herself to giving you sex 5 or 6 times a
week but is it reasonable to expect the same when she is working, doing housework,
and looking after kids? Do you still think that it is reasonable to look at
that in terms of a broken (implicit) marriage contract on her part like infidelity
is on yours or should it be seen more as expected life changes that one must
make in compromises and family life?
Dave in Phoenix says:
Also from lots of E-mail I get on this issue, from libchrist.com, women have
hormonal changes often after childbirth. With all the other responsibilities
they face or purely physical they simply lose interest in sex and the man
is physically unfulfilled. Sometimes its the women in need or more sex and
the husband has lost interest.
But back to the point of the marriage contact. The "be faithful" part based
on cultural traditions may be totally unnatural and totally unreasonable to
include. But for the sake of tradition and the fact they are so Romantically
in love at the time, they go along with it, willing to deny what may be unnatural.
"Infidelity - It may be on our genes" was a great Time Magazine 8/15/94 article
showing how more than one sexual partner is historically more natural than
monogamy. Also studies have shown the more sexually repressed a culture is
historically they more violent they are.
I think it is a natural "need" in many men and women to release sexual energy
and share physical intimacy and to limit this to one women for life is unnatural.
There are many proven health benefits of both physical intimacy and sexuality
- more than what you can get just doing it with yourself. Providers services
should be covered by the Canadian Health Plan, since it provides proven medical
benefits !!!!
In biblical times men could have as many wives, concubines and "common" prostitutes
as they wished. Other religions also deal with this natural of many men and
women to have sexual variety. For example: "Pleasure Marriages" of as short
as 1-hour regain popularity in Iraq and common in Islam. The man recites some
words and they are married for a specified time. I have had sexworkers tell
me of Muslim clients that do this with them for the length of a session.
USA Today 5/5/05 Highlights
The 1400 year-old practice of muta'a - "ecstasy" in Arabic - is as old as
Islam itself. It was permitted by the prophet Mohammed as a way to ensure
a respectable means of income for widowed women (and of course pleasure for
men). Pleasure marriages were outlawed under Saddam Hussein but have begun
to flourish again. The contracts lasting anywhere from one hour to 10 years,
generally stipulate that the man will pay the women in exchange for sexual
intimacy.
Shites and Sunnis both permit men to take more than one permanent wife, but
the rival branches of Islam are deeply split over the pleasure marriages.
Most Shiite scholars today consider it religiously legal. Shiite lawmakers
want Iraq's new constitution to give muta'a formal legal protection as under
Sharia, or Islamic law. Sunni Arabs and Kurds, who are mainly Sunni, oppose
the idea. But the practice is growing among Sunnis and Shiites alike.
Sunni scholars fear that giving official sanction to pleasure marriages -
many of which are only verbal agreements between the couple - are little more
than legalized prostitution that could lead to a collapse of moral values,
especially among young people. "We have reports about one-hour pleasure marriages
that are flourishing among students,: says a Sunni imam.
A woman agreeing to a pleasure marriage that involves a one-time encounter
might be able to count on about $100. For a muta'a that runs longer, she might
be paid $200 a month, though amounts vary widely. (A women) says, "All my
friends who have done this have told me they got married in this way just
to meet their sexual desires, but later on they started to love that man,
and he does not accept to get married permanently....Most of the men, at the
end of the contract, feel contempt towards the women."
Contracts for pleasure marriage strongly favor men. Married women can't enter
into a muta'a, although a married man can. (Dave notes just like in biblical
Christian times, a married man was not committing adultery if the other women
was single. It was a property fight issue of the husband of the other women,
not a sexual issue.) Men can void the contract at any time; women don't have
that option unless it's negotiated at the outset. The couple agrees not to
have children. The women who unintentionally gets pregnant can have an abortion
but must then pay a fine to a cleric.
To many pleasure marriages are legitimate in God's eyes. They bring responsibility
and formality to what would otherwise be squalid and sinful, As one said,
"There is a noble goal in this kind of marriage, it's to eradicate moral corruption."
A man says
There are a couple of ways to look at this issue - in anger, or with calm
acknowledgement. I don't advocate the former. Hey, people change! You don't
have to view the fact that you've dropped down your spouse's totem pole as
a slap in the face. However, you do need to meet your own needs, or there
really isn't any point to be being alive. If your spouse can't/won't meet
them, I think you have to go elsewhere. Does this mean you should divorce?
I don't think so. There is so much damage done by doing so (to the kids, to
yourself (emotionally), to your spouse (emotionally), financially) that divorce
only makes sense when staying together does even more harm. Otherwise, getting
divorced would be solely motivated by pride or some pre-conceived notion of
"what's proper", neither of which are sensible reasons for doing anything.
Another man says:
First, Dave - I have a great deal of respect for your efforts and views. Obviously,
you've thought this game out like a master chess player. But, I don't understand
the view you expressed. It's not just your view but many other instances of
this permissive sexual experience. I'm not sure whether you're wrong. Part
of me says that you are perceiving the human condition as very maliable and
open to diverse views that are all equally valid and relevant. I agree. Another
part of me says that my woman is "my woman". A man's role in life is to support
and protect and provide for his woman and children. If I permit "my woman"
to satisfy the sexual desires of other men then is she still "my woman"? If
I seek out other women to satisfy my sexual desires and needs am I still "her
man"? Relationships are by nature possessive. Each possesses the other by
loving the other. By surrendering to the relationship each surrenders their
freedom and gets loyalty in return.
I'm still bewildered by the entire question and haven't a way out of my confusion.
Dave in Phoenix says
I think different forms of relationships work better than other for different
couples. The key is to be open and honest in communications with your partner
before getting into marriage. In my view there are various options all are
legitimate moral options:
Lovestyle Options
MONOGAMY - a valid choice but the problem is that it often doesn't work. Over
50% of the time it becomes serial monogamy with different relations, different
marriages over time. Monogamy is what society teaches is "right" and those
disagreeing tend to hide. Studies show 70% of all marriages involve "cheating".
See Time magazine "Infidelity - It may be on our genes" 8/15/94 issue for
extensive study showing how more than one sexual partner is historically more
natural than monogamy. This is perhaps the biggest (unkept?) secret in our
culture and within the Church. Monogamy should be based on a couples' CHOICE,
not because they think its the only legitimate option.
SINGLES INTIMATE RELATIONSHIPS - Singles who want to remain more independent
or who have not yet found anyone they want to be in a "couple" relationship
with. Primary "couple" type relationship means someone you live with daily
and share finances. Many couples choose to remain unmarried seeing marriage
as artificial. A couple may feel they want to be with each other permanently
because they love each other, not because they have a legal document saying
they are married.
SWINGING - open couples relationships. Swinging is an example in which you
share sexually with others as a couple where you still have one primarily
relationship. Avoids the cheating that often occurs in monogamy and encourages
open communications. Many couples find their prime relationships enhanced
by the honest sharing of variety and being open with their partners, enjoying
hearing about each other's feelings and experiences with other intimate partners.
Our problem with stereotypical swinging is that it is often about brief sexual
thrusting for pure pleasure with a large number of partners. Our goal is to
bring more loving intimacy to swinging based on honest communications and
building long term extended family types of relationships.
POLYAMORY - is the broader expression of that natural desire for variety in
our loving intimacy -as opposed to stereotypical "swinging", which is typically
brief sexual interactions (rather than relationships) with different couples,
"poly" is typically considered to mean multiple simultaneous relationships
which include loving, caring intimacy (including emotions and intellectual
attraction) which have the potential to be long-term "extended family" type
relationships. These relationships my also include those with different sexual
orientations or may not. The poly relationships may be either "open" such
is typical in swinging, or "closed", which is polyfidelity. Stereotypical
swingers are most concerned with what is between the legs while "poly" styles
of love are often more concerned about what is between the ears.
POLYFIDELITY - Within polyamory a subgroup is polyfidelity which describes
more or less a closed group of people. This can take the form of a group marriage
or extended family where you have several relationships which may be couples
of may include various combinations of males and females.. Some prefer this
situation since they want the team structure, a group to come home to at night
but not an exclusive relationship. It best shows the loyalty to shared values
and commitment to each other's spirits rather than the ego of self-centered
jealousy and ownership of a typical monogamous relationship. "Intentional"
extended families, beyond just blood relatives, are created by choice. Connectedness
to others by choice may result in more fulfillment than just being born into
a family which may have very different emotions and values.
All of these types of relationships work well for different people. Your desired
relationship structure may change over time based on your own emotional needs
or your connection with others or finding a group you desire.
When a person isn't in these relationships or seeks more variety and sexuality
"for the moment" without any long term relationship, seeing a sexworker to
me as an ideal solution.
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