Dave In Phoenix interviewed by porn star Stevie Secret for Playtime Magazine.

Hi everyone. I just finished editing an interview that will be appearing locally in Arizona's Playtime magazine with my friend Dave In Phoenix. I had to cut out quite a bit to make it fit the magazine's space requirements, but I felt there was so much good stuff here, that everyone should get a chance to read it. Below you will find the entire unedited interview with Dave

Stevi Secret
http://www.stevisecret.com

Dave notes Stevi Secret is a porn star, a frequent featured dancer at nude strip clubs in San Francisco and Las Vegas and owner of a Phoenix strip club which often features porn stars. Stevi is also a columnist and writer for various adult news publications.

May 2004 Update

1. How you got interested in prostitution rights?
   
   

   After finding how wonderful women in private sexwork were around the world, especially in Canada it seems so silly that the U.S. was one of the few countries in the world where private consenting adult sexwork was illegal. I became motivated to be outspoken about private prostitution rights. To put together information and especially to address the negative issues raised by some that oppose it, I created a website, Decriminalize Private Adult Sexwork Coalition- Your Tax Dollars Are Being Wasted Ruining Citizens Lives Instead of fighting real crime back in 2000 at http://www.sexwork.com/coalition/index.html
   

2. You were very early on the Internet. Tell us how you got interested in the web,. When did you start your sites?
   

   Yes I recall the days when 300 baud was fast and there was no "web" but Usenet groups that we downloaded in "packets" to read. I was active mostly in the swing and polyamory groups more related to Liberated Christians ( http://www.libchrist.com ) which I co-founded over 10 years ago. We started an E-mail list with so many folks wanting our literature. But with 3000 on the mailing list, having a website became more practical. In about 1998 I self taught myself web coding when everything was done without the advantages of today web tools. In a short time, instead of 3000 folks on a mailing List we averaged about 2000 different visitors a day! Even now we still have about the same number of daily visitors.

   1. How did you get interested in sexwork?

      For 3 years I led the Phoenix Couples Group which of course was for couples only since most couples only want to relate to other couples. We were different than a swing club. We had many workshops on sexuality, intimacy, communications, massage etc as well as parties and other activities. The group grew to 350 couples looking for more of a friendship with others not just impersonal recreational sex in swinging.
      
      But I was very frustrated about how to help the zillions of single men that also sought sexual exploration and satisfaction. When the group first started we did ads in the Bachelor Beat. We kept track of responses and we had about 200 single males contacting us for every 20 couples and 1-2 single females.
      
      After 3 years of leading the group, often my home being used for meetings and parties and my own personal frustration of not having a female partner I turned it over to a leadership group. But members lost interest when the workshops and other activities that attracted many couples didn't continue.
      
      I was also personally frustrated by the dating game I had played for so long. l spent years in different relationships but most were only interested in monogamy. As I got older I found I just wasn't physically attracted to most women anywhere near my age.
      
      Realizing how much personal sexual frustration I had (actually I've always been more interested in more physical intimacy, giving good touch, Esalen massage that I was professionally trained in than just raw sex), as well as realizing there were zillions of other men just like me, I gradually started exploring sexwork and started http://www.sexwork.com  to share some of my ideas and research on sexwork.
      
      My first experiences were wonderful interactions at Phoenix strip clubs starting in about 1995. I was amazed at the good response I got from my type of caring touch. I also started going to massage parlors. But with the 1999 law change that made even hugging illegal in Phoenix strip clubs I quickly lost interest.
      
      My first major experience was my trip to the Philippines in about 1998 and then Thailand in 1999. But then I found Canada much more practical, great women, no legal issues and they spoke English. Since I enjoy sharing orally (verbal orally) having women speak English was highly desired. I especially liked the nude full contact strip clubs with full touch including the breast massage I enjoy doing and getting great response from dancers. Such alp dancing was declared legal by the Canadian Supreme Court in 1999. I also enjoyed the nude-reverse massage parlors in some cities in Canada. So I now have http://www.sexworkcanada.com  which links to all the city reports I've done in Canada.
      
      In Phoenix I started the Phoenix Private List Community first by snail mail in 1996 and then via E-mail in 1998. We have a very active Phoenix-Tucson Private List Community now sharing information, reviews, and intros by escorts etc protected legally more than a public website since its only by private E-mail. In 2002 it was taking a huge amount of time so with great support from members I changed it from a free to a paid subscription basis instead of me having to drop it since it was taking so much time away from me earning a living. Many said I should have gone to a subscription basis years earlier.
      

3.  How has the Internet changed the sex business?
   
   

   Before the Internet most of the escort ads were rip offs, either cash and dash, up pricing, or fake pictures. With the Internet and especially review boards and private Lists, it is now easy to find the honest providers and read honest reviews and not just get ripped off so often in pre Internet days. It also made it easy for providers to start in business by becoming known on the Internet, having their own websites and being known as honest providers on various review boards and private lists like we have in Phoenix.
   
   More recently LE has also discovered the Internet and in some cities such as Phoenix, gone crazy setting up stings a and enforcing victimless anti-prostitution laws. I am outspoken and upset we have such few sexual rights in the U.S. vs Canada and most of the rest of the world where private, consenting adult sexwork is not a legal issues. Police resources should be used to fight crimes with victims, not morality laws imposed by the religious right since they can't get the majority of people to follow their repressive rules. So they pass laws to force society to follow their beliefs. Ironically the sexual repressive traditions they preach have absolutely no biblical basis as we discuss in great detail on http://www.libchrist.com  and http://www.sexwork.com
   
   At least with the recent Lawrence vs Texas Supreme Court case, morality can no longer be a basis for law and the Court held we have the right to express our sexuality in ways we wish. But the religious conservatives are fighting back hard passing more and more restrictive laws - which may eventually be declared unconstitutional - but it will be a long costly battle to achieve the same consenting adults sexual rights that most of the rest of the world has long had.
   

    
4. Explain the difference between legalizing and decriminalizing prostitution.
   
   

   Legalizing is making all sorts of restrictions like the terrible government pimp houses of out state Nevada where women are virtual captives, prices are very high and most of the money goes to the owners and to comply with totally unneeded regulations and restrictions.
   
   Decriminalization is what sexwork enjoys in most of the world. Women in charge of their own bodies and business. without restrictive requirements that make no sense. For example, most professional sexworkers are very health concerned. Going to a professional sexworker is far safer than meeting a women in a bar. The STD rates in professional sexworkers is very low and of course HIV has never been any real issue. OK have a law that sexworkers have to use condoms. That is just common sense. It is like a health regulation of a restaurant. But don't require periodic testing which is a waste of time and money.
   
   Decriminalization means treating sexwork like any other legal business. Yes, can have zoning restrictions for incalls, and public nuisance street soliciting should NOT be legal. Again in most of the rest of the world street hookers are illegal as a public nuisance issue, but private sexwork is legal in most of the world except the U.S. Some countries restrict incalls. In Canada for example the 1850 bawdy house law technically makes incalls illegal. But it is rarely enforced unless suspect under aged, drugs, illegals or neighbor complaints. There is a lot of discussion in Canada to repeal the bawdy house law especially to help get hookers off the streets since they are a major problem in Canada (and illegal) as in the U.S. and other countries.
   

    
5. Why don't you like street hookers?
   
   

   Because sexwork should be done in private with consenting adults. Street hookers unless in special zones of tolerance as in some countries are a major public nuisance issue. Unlike in private sexwork, street hookers often are on drugs, have pimps and are often desperate for money which may result in unsafe sex practices. I propose that the U.S. have laws similar to Canada. Public solicitation on the streets is illegal, but newspaper ads, websites, soliciting on the telephone is totally legal, only on the street public solicitation is illegal. Much of Europe has similar laws.
   

    
6. You have been involved with the police in some cases where sexworkers have been threatened etc Tell us about working with the PHXPD
   
   

   I have not had any working relationship with Phx PD. But when I knew of about 12 sexworkers that were assaulted, raped, choked to the point of passing out, I contacted Scottsdale PD, where many of the attacks occurred. Unlike the beat cops that often treat sexworkers as trash, I was put in contact with the head of the sex crimes unit who was very concerned about getting this dangerous person off the streets, regardless of the occupation of the victim. l spread the word on the Private List although most of the victims had ads in the AZ Republic and were not on the Internet. I also called all the ads to warn them. I convinced sexworkers they could trust the Scottsdale Sex Crime people and reports started coming back that they were treated wonderfully.
   
   The result is this dangerous rapist is now in jail faced with 12 felonies and dozens of lesser charges. Some providers kept the condom he used and his DNA confirms he was the attacker. Police also tracked cell phone calls made to providers by him. I have the entire story and media reports at http://www.sexwork.com/Phoenix/rapist.html
   
   This also shows why sexwork should be decriminalized. The attacker used their profession to his benefit thinking they would not report his crimes. I applaud the Scottsdale Police Sex Crime Unit for how wonderfully they treated sexworker victims and did good police work to catch and jail this dangerous attacker.
   

    
7. What do you think of Sheriff Arapaio?
   
   

   He is a media hound trying to impose his views by his busting close to 100 private sexworkers and clients (whose cases were dismissed based on entrapment) for his own media glory. Most media stories questioned the waste of police resources chasing breasts and so much time to after victimless crimes vs real criminals. These were private sexworkers providing a positive service to our culture. They were not street hookers, but their crime was giving people pleasure. Pleasure should not be illegal and its not in most of the world except the U.S.
    

8. Phx Swing and Strip Clubs have been subjected to some stringent laws. What do you think about that?

   The laws were passed with almost no public support at 4 public hearings and long Council meeting at the end of 1998. The only people that favored it were representatives of the religious right groups and a few Church ladies. It is clearly a religious right morality law which has no legitimate public purpose. All the arguments about protecting children, health issues, and maintaining the morality of the city had absolutely no basis. But it didn't matter the City is controlled by the extreme religious right groups.
   
   The strip club law which outlaws even hugging since those dirty terrible female breasts can't touch a man, make dancers nothing but sex objects to gawk at. Back in the prelaw days I enjoyed interacting with caring touch, sensuality with another wonderful human being that was physically and emotionally healthy. But in the eyes of the religious right , touch is terrible, oh my god...there might be some pleasure going on and we can't have anything like that in our city. Somehow in their twisted minds viewing women as nothing but teasing sex objects with no healthy positive touch interaction is better for our culture.
   
   Fortunately the Lawrence v Texas Supreme Court case tossed out the idea of morality being a basis of laws.
   

9. You have been working with some people to change the current laws in Phoenix. Tell us what you can about that group.
   
   

   A group representing a number of sex orientated lifestyles and interests formed The Sexual Expression Freedom Coalition. We have had many organizational meeting and a great deal of support to fight for sexual rights in Arizona. We have many ideas on the table and will have public meetings in the near future and a public website.
   
   The Mission Statement:
   We have a fundamental right to pursue human sexuality and its expression in private establishments among consenting adults. This right of association is guaranteed to us under the Constitution of the United States.
   
   We have the right to pursue our happiness as we deem fit not as others would decide for us. We have the right to be free from the
   imposition of others' religious or secular beliefs that infringe on our right of human fulfillment.
   
   As free and rational adults we have the right to engage in any consenting activity to which we fully and safely participate. We have
   the right to engage in adult consensual conduct without government or religious intervention.
   
   This group is dedicated to the pursuit of freedom for adult consensual alternative sexual expression.
   

10.  What can the average concerned citizen do to improve the legal situation for adult activities in Arizona?
    
    

    Join the current letter writing campaign to try and put pressure on the Phoenix City Council- see http://www.libchrist.com/swing/PhoenixLetterCampaign.html There are suggested letters that include those not in the Phoenix area, as well as for Phoenix residents.
    
    Participate in our public meetings and volunteer help for our various committees. We will have a website with info soon, and all the information I will also keep up to date on http://www.libchrist.com. If you wish to be on a mailing list of activities E-mail me at dave@d... or join the Phoenix Private List Community if sexworkers are your main interest - see http://www.sexwork.com/privateinfo.html
    
    We are looking at both legal challenges to the various laws as well as potential citizen initiative to change the law.
    
    But all of this will require a great deal of money to stand up for everyone's rights of sexual expression. Soon we will have a place to send contributions, but for now contact me at dave@davephx.com... of your interest and will get you to the right fund raising people.
    
    

Best wishes
Dave in Phoenix
http://www.sexwork.com
http://www.sexworktoronto.com
http://www.touchangels.com
http://www.libchrist.com