Discussions from Phoenix Private E-mail List
 on New AZ Strip and Nude Club Proposals

The Religious Right Again Wants To Control Consenting Adult Interactions

January 23, 2000

And AZ religious zealots now want even more adult restrictions:

A State bill has been introduced recently which would have a major
impact on adult entertainment. Already we have been subjected to 1 A.M.
closings and numerous other new restrictions. 

The proposed state law ( HB 2297) would: 

1. Ban nudity entirely

2. Require "seminude" dancers to maintain a 10 foot distance from customers 
and prohibits even touching a customers clothing.

3. Dancers must perform ( while seminude ) on a stage with a minimum height of
2 feet from the floor.

4. Tipping is prohibited, period.

The bill can be viewed @ 

Introduced by YOUR Representatives Jarrett, Groscost, Senator Bowers: Representatives Gordon, Gray, Marsh, Preble, Verkamp, Senator Bennett 
A comment from asp: 
The primary sponsor of this bill is Marilyn Jarrett, Republican from Mesa (read "Mormon"). She has a long history of wacky legislation. Joining with her in the #0000d2-Haired Uptight Shrew Brigade is Jean McGraph, Republican from Glendale. 
A comment from wise active contributor/researcher from the list:

This would be about as restrictive as any law in any state if actually passed. I don't really plan to write or do much this time, as the political figures already seem to know where they stand and what we believe is the least of their concerns. A lot depends on what the Sup. Ct. decides in the Papps case out of Pennsylvania. 

If this passes, we may see a variety of responses, such as maybe starting some hostess clubs w/no nudity here (I wouldn't mind seeing some anyway!), starting private clubs that required membership (probably the state can regulate or forbid them as well), or even have some underground clubs (much easier to discreetly visit one escort in an apartment than to discreetly have music and ladies giving lap dances!). As for me, maybe such a law would actually be beneficial in my life. I would have more time and money on my hand if I quit wasting both going to strip clubs. The occasional visit with one of the ladies of the XXX or xxx or someone else would be more bang for less buck. I have been thinking of dropping the clubs and doing that occasionally anyway.

Dave says: I agree! With all the great intimacy I've shared in Manila, Thailand, Canada and with all the great gals reviewed on the private E-mail List, I've decided to forget the clubs. With the new restriction banning wholesome human intimacy I no longer have any interest but enjoy sharing with more with full providers that in my view provide such a healthy service that we need more of in our culture like most of the world instead of the terrible immoral laws that prohibit such great adult, consensual sensual healthy sharing. 
January 31, 2000
Arizona Laws
I am an escort service/massage service owner. I understand they are trying to pass some new laws. How do people like myself take a stand and speak to represent the entertainers? Because this time I am not standing around. this time I am going to put up a fight and if people want to join in fine. 

Dave replies:
Of course I agree with you and on sexwork.com especially the decriminalization section try and offer ideas to help educate the public on the issues.

My only suggestion is to contact YOUR representative and try and meet with him and discuss the issues. This is how the religious right groups do it via lobbyists etc. But sadly their are no lobbyists for Sexworkers or adult entertainers.

Anyone else have any practical ideas?

She further replies:

Tiffanys claims to have a lobbiest on their side now. Several club owners (tiffanys and Centerfolds are all I know of for sure) have gotten thousands of people to sign petitions. Also the owner of ABC Ent who has been in the adult entertainment business for 15 years I think just told me today that these items have already passed over 10 years ago in AZ. They were just never enforced. The no tipping part is being added. 

Now, who in your little email group is going to show up tommorow at 8:30 AM in room 5 at the Washington location in the NE building to stand up for their opinion and rights? None. It is a shame that these issues can cause so much upset and concern but no one is willing to stand up for themselves? I do not put the blaim on our government officials, I place it on the average citizens who are afraid or ashamed to stand their ground.

I place it on those gentelmen who like to "talk" and post reviews and show concern only while hidding behind a email address. The downfall of our country and loss of our freedomes are happening every day because of people like that. We are loosing all controle of our government because their are so many who think there is someone who will battle and fight for them. Your group is a good thing to bring people together with a common interest, but its a bad thing too. They think that "xxxxx" and "xxxxxxxx" will be all they need when they can no longer enjoy a nude massage, have a stripper come to a party or enjoy a topless or nude dance. They are wrong. 

Dave replies:

You have to remember the huge turnout we had at five public hearings and Council meeting a year ago. Almost no support for the new Phoenix laws other than some religious right preachers and Church ladies talking about morality. All the well reasoned arguments from the vast numbers who spoke against the new restrictions were ignored and passed anyway.

Most of us on the private list aren't really that interested in being teased by a dancer being a sex object. Most of us are for what we consider more wholesome human interaction with providers as sensual humans not just a body to be exploited for gawking.

The strip/nude clubs caved in last time around and decided to settle with the city and not get even tougher restrictions.

Most from the list realize the power the religious right groups have, the biggest headquartered here in Scottsdale with their mission to help 1000 cities across American pass anti-adult sex laws. They were behind Tampa and most other anti-adult laws.

Most of us realize we have to simply go underground or Canada, Europe, Asia, Mexico or most anywhere in the world except the U.S. to find adult sexual freedoms.

I doubt anyone knows about the hearing you mentioned.

The general public doesn't give a darn. They think like on the leeza show yesterday adult stuff is just dirty and terrible even if they are secretly participating. Surveys if worded about support of consenting adult sexual freedoms in private often are in favor of freedoms but sadly most public view is based on the terrible side and misinformation. TV shows will not air due to pressure from sponsors anything much showing adult sexuality in a positive light. We have clearly seen that in polyamory and sexwork related shows.

The clubs showed no interest in Phoenix where we many of us did stand up. Now they want us to get on the bandwagon in AZ. Even the ACLU wasn't that interested in the fight last year since gay issues are more their interest (which I also support). Again many of us aren't that much interested in strip clubs but more full human interactions and accept the fact it has to be done underground in our culture, or by traveling to almost any other country.
From Az Gold employee (male)
concerning HB2297:
I can't believe the passive tone you're taking on this. since the clubs were atleast one time a source of pleasure for you. think of the hundreds of people that will be put out of work for this. are you people gonna buckle under before this even passes. AND DON'T THINK FOR A MINUTE THAT IT'S GONNA STOP THERE! we (the nude clubs as a collective) are hiring a lawyer/lobbyist to protect our interest. but we still need the support of the people. get out to the clubs and sign the petitions. stand up for what you beleive in while you still have that option. any questions I can be reached at AZGold @ night or my email.

My additional reply:

Most of us never were that intersted in Az Gold type no touch interactions. Many of us are supportive of all adult entertainment, not just what we mostly seek, but again, we lost the major battle for lap dancing a year ago which was more our interest without any club support.

Most of us on the private list aren't really that interested in being teased by a dancer being a sex object. Most of us are for what we consider more wholesome human interaction with providers as sensual humans not just a body to be exploited for gawking. We stood up strongly against the elimination of laps with human touch last time around and lost. So most of us don't have much interest in nude/strip clubs any more.

The clubs didn't seem to care that much about lap dancing, because there is such a large demand to just sit and watch dancers on the stage. The clubs still are busy and successful with the new restrictions. Its a macho thing to do, I guess to sit around and ogle nude or topless women on a stage. Especially in a college town with lots of young guys.
Another good E-mail to me and my reply: ( had a bunch and am only sharing a few good ones)

Dave, I hope there are other people out there that are supplying legislators, council people and etc. with the FACTS on these issues. The perceived so-called "SECONDARY EFFECTS" argument is often used without any evidence of PROOF. I know Redner in Tampa, Florida (Mons Venus) and his attorney have plenty of documented EVIDENCE that refutes the cities claim of the secondary effects. Maybe with the help of enough people concerned about our personal liberties, we can supply the even or open-minded politicians with enough documented evidence that helps support our viewpoints. THEORIES are ABOUND, but hard-core facts are hard to gather....It seems way too much legislation is enacted on MISGUIDED THEORIES WITHOUR REGARD FOR THE FACTS... Often comes down to religion it seems... ANY WAY I CAN HELP, PLEASE LET ME KNOW.

Dave's reply:

Re: secondary effects 

The swing clubs even got printouts from police computers showing calls to the clubs vs the corner 7-11 type stores or regular bars. The swing clubs had hardly took any police resources. If the strip clubs had done the same I'm sure the results would have been the same.

But the city argued yes there is a major secondary effect, namely the CRIME of prostitution. And they had huge police report showing all the prostitution CRIMES being committed at strip clubs (dancers touching their own breasts on stage, simulating sex etc) besides on a lap dance an occasional accidental brush of a breast against a underground vice cop was a crime against the citizens of Phoenix. The "Crime report proof" the city published is full of what to us is silly sex crime. The human interactions which are a crime is to me far more moral and healthy for our culture than the immoral laws, forcing women to only be viewed from afar as sex objects to ogle at instead of the many benefits to society of healthy, wholesome interaction that occurs in the "crime" of sexwork. Sharing pleasure is a crime....treating women as nothing but sex objects for tease is somehow a higher calling the politicians insist on.

See http://www.sexwork.com/coalition/Phoenix/contentsphx.html where I have the entire story and link to my detailed review of these crime reports and how silly they are.

Therefore the clubs (both swing and strip) are a public nuisance because sex crimes take place in them. Forget consenting adults. There is no first amendment right to be involved in a sex crime. Until the prostitution laws are changed the religious right is on sadly quite solid ground and they know it, to restrict adult sexual activities because sex crime (and prostitution) is involved.

>our personal liberties, we can supply the even or open-minded politicians
>with enough documented evidence that helps support our viewpoints. 

I sent every member of the Phoenix City Council my views and research on all the positive aspects of human interactions at the clubs. I sent the same info to the entire editorial staff of the Arizona Republic which took a strong editorial position in favor of the more restrictive laws. I got no response, other than the normal "thank you for your interest" letter everyone gets when they write their Council person.

A club owner (Alaska Bush I think) mentioned in one of the hearings, he can't even get access to his representative to talk about the issue yet it seems Council's doors are always wide open to talk to the religious right groups.

I agree people need to stand up and fight. But I'm burned out from trying a year ago in Phoenix on issues that were far more important to me than the current issue since I have no interest in strip or nude clubs anymore in Phoenix under the current law, which is why I personally have little interest other than general support against the even tougher restrictions now proposed for all of AZ.

Actually the passage of the more restrictive laws could be beneficial. There will be lots of media attention over it. More and more people will see how much control the immoral religious right has over consenting adult sexuality, allowing women only for tease instead of any healthy consenting adult interactions. More and more people will see this abuse of religious power, especially ironic since their is no biblical basis for such views anyway, only traditions of men controlling people that twist scripture (often based on biblical ignorance) and lie about biblical Christianity.

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