TBD Lies, Slander and Censorship

Sadly it is widely reported that the popular T(he) B(ig) D(oggie) boards that have nicely organized separate boards for most major cities are being destroyed by their creator. TBD seems to have a far different agenda than just honest respectful sharing of information and ideas. 

This is good summary posted on asp in reply to my post about TBD:

"The main focus of TBD is about high priced providers. Some charge $500 for a basic hour. It really boils down to a web infomercial. Its pourpose is to convince guys that this is the going rate for services. There is a definite company line on TBD. One must tow that line to paticipate.

ps - Its kind of funny that they have been actively seeking donations recently. You would think the providers who get all that business from that board would be happy to pay for it, in addition to the banner ads. But personally I don't pay anyone for the privledge of censoring me.

Good Luck, Keep up your good work. -- Bubbaman"

I have been hearing such rumors for years but never took them very seriously - until he proved to me they are true based on his destruction of what was the happy family on his TBD Phoenix board. Not only does he resent the fact I have helped so many, but he is spreading lies, false innuendos, deleting posts that refute him as well as huge number of posts mostly of lower cost providers based on his whim, no other reason.  He clearly supports the high cost $400 provider since he never deletes their posts, which are often just talking about how great they are and are disguised ads.

Since I've become public with my being  upset, lots of others are saying the same thing about other TBD boards. This is a shame since we should have more cooperation and support for all honest discussion forums. But when posts about other than his favored high priced providers, are deleted periodically in mass, it is obvious he has an agenda that is not about honestly and integrity.

I have repeatedly tried to have a respectful private discussion with him on issues, but all he does is reply with rants and more slander and false innuendos.  Recently he did is rant in public so all can see his true colors.

With so many new people finding his popular boards, I feel it is about time I warn folks about his agenda and reprehensible actions. While some of this is personally motivated by his slander of me, the issue is far broader, especially when so many are reporting the same type of censorship on other TBD boards.

As owner of the TBD boards, he can censor whatever he likes. But we also have the right to speak out against his obvious agenda and warn others his boards are very censored, although he constantly attacks those who say so. The facts are clear, and the experience on the Phoenix board showed that to everyone by his childish actions and posts.

I prepared an extensive Open Letter to TBD that goes into great verifiable details which show that all his denials and attacks are total lies and fantasy on his part.   I have documented everything I say, unlike his emotional rants and false charges.  I have include quotes from many others that saw what happened -  it is not just me against TBD, but lots of former supporters of TBD.

As I am writing this for example, here is a public response to my open letter just posted on alt.prostitution newsgroup:
1 Jun 2000 03:53:40 GMT
TBD has effectively destroyed the Philly and NY boards the same way! He  deletes legit posts at will .... What needs to be done is abandon the board...I was in there last week and no one is even reading posts or replying to posts anymore. Its really sad because the board had potential but the moderator has destroyed his credibility.   MDoc

Viper (viper@irc-scripts.org) wrote:
: And the reason we care about this is?
: Keep your fights on the web not in usenet.

Kinda hard to keep the fight on the Web when the modorator of the site just deletes any post trying to get out the truth. This is Usenet. If somebody wants to post about a corrupt PROSTITUTION web site on a usenet PROSTITUTION newsgroup it sure as hell seems relavent to me.

The bottom line is- TBDs web site is corrupt and people need to know about it. Girls who charge less have their posts deleted. Guys who
write that a girl wasn't that good gets his post deleted. Anyone who crosses a Big dog Favorite gets posts deleted. So, the site is censored. If you use it you pay more for an escort and if you cross the wrong people there you get smeared.

Bottom line is- people are using free speech on a free forum to warn others about a bad escort web site.
THAT is why we care.

Sample E-mails from Phoenix Guys:
"As for this TBD board, this guy who runs it may have a secondary motive to push higher prices women. I see you as a honest man who is looking out for the best of interest of all. That is why I read your messages every time I see one. I believe you, you are credible and honest. TBD guy may have a finacial or personal way of benefitting from his board. This is a theory, since he seems to be threatened by you. You guys do the same thing basically. The defensive nature of TBD makes me question his motives and credibility. Sexwork(.com) is a solid honest operation, and TBD is threatened."

Dave, Iv'e read every one of your posts on TBD Phoenix for the last year. TBD obviously hasn't. He could never say what he did unless he never read your posts or is simply a pathelic confirmed lier.

Another on alt.prostitution 1 June 2000
Dave.... TBD has been doing that crap for a long time. The reviews and contacts are old...and some of the most wonderful providers in the $$ range are ommitted. Intentionally. Why even mess with them....it is a sorry resource. Beach Bum

More examples that TBD can't lie his way out of or that its just my fantasy:

By E-mail:
Hi Dave,,, Northdak here.  Could hardly believe it ,,,I spent about 1/2 hr writing about the lower price providers vs higher price...more times for your money..but when special ocassions come up...a higher priced lady is a nice change of pace etc. over noon today...by the time I came home at 4.30 it was deleted...I once replied to a post of someone wanting info on Escort Marie...and his post and mine was deleted within a day...

On the TBD Board a provider challenged guys to post more about lower cost providers trying to claim they are all imagined and there are none.  A thread developed I had nothing to do with: Re: Guys, contribute! Why when they get deleted??  which is the thread Northdak posted to and of course it was quickly deleted since it discussed lower cost providers.

I  captured fast his post about Marie - someone had suggested TBD deletes all threads where I am in any way mentioned (The D word) yet here is an example of a thread I never had anything to do with:

Re: Guys, contribute! Why when they get deleted??
Posted by northdak , Jun 01,2000,19:16
About a month ago there was a request for info on a woman named escort Marie...I replied as I had seen her...I never mentioned the D word as you say..and the whole request for info and my reply was deleted..She is not a high cost provider but does provide a good service at a reasonable price...so what gives.

There are zillions of examples like this but I didn't copy  them before they got deleted by TBD's whim.

There were especially some great posts from clients that had been to many of the expensive providers as well as many of the lower priced ones.  Everyone had the same conclusion - there wasn't much difference.  The high priced  providers, active on TBD, were very high quality, honest but the lower priced ones were of similar quality and  they could afford to see the lower priced ($200/hr and less) more often.

In TBD's final post he again makes two lies.  He claims he has asked me not to post on his board since I say the board is full of useless information.

The truth is until now he has never asked me not to post, he has played childish games of deleting my posts, including those that just answer questions that have nothing to do with TBD or his censorship,  and blocking "Dave" or "sexwork" from ever showing up, but he never asked me not to post.  I replied that I will respect his wishes and not attempt to post in the future (my post in reply of course was deleted) but his stays. 

And I have always said how valuable and good TBD boards are/were except for deletions of posts on a whim having anything to do with lower cost providers.  So the lies continue as he seeks to spin the tale to his advantage.

Posts then appeared asking him not to have me leave.  Others have said before, it is obvious I have more information on the Phoenix scene than anyone and how my posts have been so helpful to many.  But they are are deleted by TBD.

I want to move on and put energies into more productive ways of supporting all forms of consensual adult sexwork and to help educate the public how badly decriminalization is needed, like in most of the rest of the world.

But as part of trying to help people, I also will warn of the censorship at a whim by TBD which is the only problem with his boards, but it is destroying what could be the many happy families in the various boards, simply because of the Board Owner (TBD) agenda that is far different than honesty and integrity.

It is too bad so much energy has been wasted just because TBD won't allow posts about honest great providers whose "sin" is to not charge enough to make them be favored by TBD.  Sadly instead of us being able to cooperate to help others he sees me as the competition and his enemy.  I have tried to reach out to him, try and discuss any differences privately,  but it is simply no use,  for whatever reason he seems to have to simply want to fight instead of having open sharing on his boards.

On June 2, 2000 TBD  closed the Phoenix Board - Too Bad
Many saw so many posts disappear about lower cost providers within hours after he spun his tale that he never did, he got tired of destroying the evidence and closed the board.

I had stopped posting at his request, but others were trying to post who were upset with his continued lies and deletions. Even one who had previously supported TBD asked him to invite me back. He could only spin it to his advantage so long since the facts were obviously different. Now his spin is the board is unfairly being attacked.

It's too bad the board closed for the high priced providers who used it so effectively to get clients, since seemed they were the only options in Phoenix, with posts about lower priced ones being deleted. Nothing against the $400 providers that dominated the TBD Phoenix Board, they are honest, very attractive and you can pay more in Phoenix for a scam. But there are just as good lower cost providers in Phoenix!

Time to move on, but I will continue to expose his lies and censorship at a whim which many are reporting also happens on other TBD boards.

Someday, my dream is the TBD boards will be honest, without his censorship on a whim he has so clearly demonstrated to so many in the past.

6/11/00 Dangerous advice now on new TBD Phoenix Board
Plus Another TBD board destroyed by TBD. An Update

TBD after destroying the family on TBD Phoenix board has now reopened it but with all posts screened by him before they show up. Of course I am not allowed to post since my agenda of honestly and helping people while not putting non-outed providers at LE risk isn't the same as his agenda of promoting certain types of providers (the highest priced).

Caitlin who is trying to be helpful and supportive of all providers, has a post which could be very dangerous, but she doesn't realize it. She is trying to encourage everyone to post about all providers, regardless of price. She did that once before, resulting in "why post when it will just be deleted?" replies (none from me) and then TBD deleted all these posts and later closed the board. And now its reopened more as an infomercial for the Big6 and their fan club. But it really isn't there fault they are mostly the only ones left it seems on TBD. But there are newcomers finding it all the time. As I've always said, they are all honest great providers. But there are far less costly good options in Phoenix that newcomers want to also hear about. But it is too dangerous for them to discuss them openly.

Caitlin is trying to encourage posts about others, for which I give her credit but she doesn't realize the LE problem. Here is what she says:

"Gentlemen, if you have a good experience with a provider, regardless of price, let us know!!! Stay within the guidelines (duh!). I'm sure many would be happy to be "outed" on this board. ... I am familiar with that "other" list. Fact is, most of the agencies and independents reviewed on that list advertise in The Beat, The New Times, or the AZ Repulsive. (whoops! I mean Republic) These publications are WAY more public than this board. Ok, so maybe a few of these providers really are as private D*** says. Ask her! Of course, the really good ones might find their business gets better, and she might raise her prices. Is that what you are really afraid of? (LOL)"

Dave comments but can't on TBD: No, Caitlin, there are lots of providers that would not at all be "happy to be outed" on TBD. I have heard this from many providers. Yes, some (not all) of the lower cost providers do advertise. But there is one huge difference. When 90% of the ads in the Beat for example are rip offs, LE, which has limited manpower can only try and sting so many. But when a provider is "outed" on TBD which we know LE reads in Phoenix and many cities, it is a great roadmap for them to know the honest providers to sting and not waste time on the scams.

A number of the Big6 on TBD know they have been contacted by LE but are careful enough to avoid any problems. Not all providers are that good at screening and I know many would be VERY UPSET to ever have a positive review of them on TBD or any other public site. Everyone on this list has agreed not to take reviews and publish them on any other list. There are good reasons for this! I wish we didn't even need this private list but in Phoenix it is critical with the current legal situation. Even though I know you aren't doing anything illegal like paying for sex, it can seem that way by the reviews not knowing the situation and of course many of you just like writing fantasies which we all enjoy :)

When I was participating on TBD I answered questions about already outed providers, confirmed some were scams some weren't etc. But I refused to expose a non-outed provider in such a public forum, that is watched my LE. LE even set up a sting from a fake reviews on the Seattle board and arrested guys as they came.

TBD Phoenix was a happy family I think most all would agree before TBD deleted posts. One problem however is that people were seeking less than the $400 range provider and others were saying they had experienced both and the lower cost were just as nice as the expensive Big6. But when people starting asking how to find the lower cost providers that created a problem. With TBD's rants to be E-mail with all sorts of lies etc., I agreed not to mention this private list or even sexwork.com and most others didn't dare. Someone directed a person to s.e.x.w.o.r.k..c.o.m (dots since TBD had a delete program for sexwork.com). Of course that post was deleted as were posts by many others about lower cost providers, and other threads we have no idea why he deleted, and TBD closed the board. Frankly I have conflicting thoughts. I really don't want more people on the this private list and don't want it any more well known. I prefer people just find it buried in sexwork.com. Yet, I also want to help the many new folks that want to find all the different honest provider options in Phoenix, not just the most expensive ones. If anyone from here does post on TBD, please don't refer to the private list directly, just sexwork.com (it is listed in the Phoenix section but not jumping out so have to find it). If anyone does, it might be interesting if it is deleted or not, it probably will not make it to the list with TBD's censorship.

BTW I am trying to document more details, but here is a recent asp post about another TBD board:

A board member said:
"Well, contrary to popular opinion, I found the TBD boards to be helpful and informative, and not to be all that censoring (but yes, a little). Then i log on today to try and find a reply to a question i asked and see if i could get some info, and only to find that my thread was deleted and THIS is the latest message:

WTF!? the moderator goes on vacation, and all of a sudden TBD steps in and is going to shut down this board.

DC Spa & Massage Board is temporarily closed while TBD decides its fate... (eom) (no text) --- TBD"

Dave says: Over the years I have heard about his censorship on many boards, but never took them seriously until his agenda was clearly proven to all on the Phoenix Board.

October, 2000 Even a favored provider gets upset and leaves as do some of few remaining locals after TBD censors and growls again

The Phoenix TBD Board censorship continues and another popular provider has had enough and leaves after many years on TBD as a very highly regarded provider. And another long time contributor also leaves after TBD again censors and growls.

The TBD Phoenix board of course has very little local activity since most have left with all the censorship and obvious TBD agenda clearly shown earlier when I was banned from the board since by agenda of honest, supportive discussion of all levels of providers yet protecting privacy, TBD clearly stated was not in line with his agenda. I have never violated any board rules but even my posts giving someone an address of a publically advertise massage place was censored off.

So the board is mostly from newcomers asking about Phoenix with usually no replies other than the same glee club for a few high priced (but good) active providers. But now even one of the long time very popular providers has had enough:

her message (including misspellings)
Bye Phoenix!!
Posted by Sedona , Oct 29,2000,00:58
I am off the Phoenix board until someone notifies me that someone is a little more fair about exercising their reguard for the FIRST AMENDMENT. Till then have fun. Gaurd your tongue and don't get on anybody's bad side.

(Excerpts of articles with full credit, available for free on a public board being shared under the Fair Use provision of the U.S. Copyright laws and International treaties for educational purposes and for no financial gain)

What prompted this was a thread which started with someone expressing his being upset that Sedona was not willing to make another appointment with him. Sedona in one of the best responses to a common issue I've ever seen (I wish I would have kept it, but didn't realize it would get censored off), explained how she has been so harassed by local Phoenix men that insist on being boyfriends and wanting free services that she has stopped seeing new and many former Phoenix men. Her post was wonderfully tactful yet forceful. It was praised in the thread by many.

But it seems TBD himself deleted the post even overriding what the anonymous "TBD Phoenix Moderator", would have done.

As usual, some of the few folks still on TBD Phoenix were again upset with the censorship and the anonymous "TBD Phoenix Moderator" said TBD sometimes also deletes posts.

Regarding the post in question even the moderator said. "I thought Sedona did a wonderful job addressing the concern of a digruntled poster. If I remember correctly, the post was written as a legit complaint and not a slam. Her response was very professional and addressed the issue completely. In my opinion it showed Sedona's professionalism and self control under fire. In the end I thought her response commanded respect." (quoted under fair use of copyright law)

But I guess it doesn't fit TBD's agenda (whatever it is) HE must have censored and deleted the thread as is so common in the past on TBD Phoenix which has made the board useless for good honest information and any real community of discussion like it use to be before TBD killed it.

Than TBD himself does his usualy growl:
No messages about board management...
Posted by TBD , Oct 30,2000,13:32
or else... Why don't you complainers grow up?
I'm going in and deleting some messages. They violate my guidelines. That is explanation enough.
Any gruff and we go to pre-modertion tomorrow. You know what the next step is...

To which another long time contributor said
"I'm outta here!!"

And another reply:
Daddeo , Oct 30,2000,14:28
why don't WE grow up? I don't understand why anyone would spend the time and effort to post on a board that is run like this. My last message violated no guidelines other than to have questioned the almighty management of this board. YOU grow up!

(Excerpts of articles with full credit, available for free on a public board being shared under the Fair Use provision of the U.S. Copyright laws and International treaties for educational purposes and for no financial gain)

New folks think those high prices (but great gals), are the only option in Phoenix. Most lower priced ($150-$200) FS, 1 hr attractive providers don't want the public exposure risk yet TBD prohibits any suggestions (such as I use to make) on how to find information about such providers).

And of course I'm banned from the board for my suggestions of lower priced availability and honest answers to many peoples questions over the years. Without sounding immodest, I think most in phoenix will agree I probably know more about the Phoenix scene than most anyone else. But that is a threat to TBD for some unknown reason.

It may be because I also protected privacy of providers who would not want to be mentioned on a public board as TBD, which is known that Phoenix vice cops monitor for leads to legitimate providers instead of the more common ripoffs in Phoenix

I totally support the idea of TBD boards and the Phoenix board was a great community until TBD himself destroyed it with his censorship, lies and slander.


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